Young Earth Creationists

[PedroPonyLikesCrisps]

I know Young Earth Creationists exist, I've seen them on telly, but never met one in real life, so I'm just wondering if anyone here is one or knows one or whether they are actually just incredibly rare and reserved for extreme tv debating!

Oh goody, a day of judgement prediction.

Hopefully not until after I move into my lovely new house.

What happens btw, do the chosen get taken into gods spaceships or am I confusing Scientology and Erik Von Daneken?

What do the rest of us do (secretly reckon I'll be chosen, Santa and the Easter bunny both seem to rate me).

'Judgement Day' has to be one of the most objectionable coercion techniques when it comes to religion.

'Join our gang or you'll be sorreeeeeee'.

Best how do you square the quote saying "in this generation" and you responding that the day of judgement isn't here yet.

We're way past one generation after Jesus, regardless of how old you think the earth is.

Ooooo, nothing like an end times prediction. Funnily enough they are always wrong despite Christians almost gleefully wishing it. Kinda sick if you ask me.

It is pretty sick. At the end of the day, NOBODY KNOWS AND NOBODY CAN KNOW because it's the old proving a negative thing.

To pretend that you have some kind of insider knowledge and then torture people into believing that they or their loved ones might not 'make the divine grade' is pretty immoral. Ironic really.

Because the day of judgment hasn't happened yet. But it's coming soon so get ready. Almost all the signs are fulfilled.

"The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation"

How long is a bloody generation in your book? (actually, strike that, you book reckons people can live for a millennium)

Also, just to be pedantic, your actual words were:

Because He said He did and everything else He said has come true so I trust Him on faith

But you actually just admitted that something he said hasn't come true, even if you ignore the specifics of the words used (crack open that new dictionary of yours for a definition of "generation") which you pride yourself on being so accurate with and with which you again have demonstrated a catastrophic failure of understanding.

"Michael Johnson did a fabulous documentry about how come Jamacans and people of Jamaican decent are so statisticly improbably good at sprinting. Well worth a watch as the theory goes its a kind of forced natural selection as a result of the slave trade. It is a very good example of how evolution may have worked over millions of years."

January, it sounds to me like a "very good example of how evolution may have worked over" hundreds of years. (Once again, a prediction of my model.)

"you say God made the best universe for people. Really? So why do we get cancer?"

Not quite. God made the universe possible for people. I didn't say the "best universe for people." There may have been other possible universes God could have made for people. (But I think I would have to agree that this is the best possible universe.)

Why we get cancer is due to mutations which are a result of man's sin. Adam and Eve would have lived forever had they not sinned. Their sin affected the entire creation so that caused animals to die as well. God has promised that this system of things will not last forever. There will be ultimate justice and death will be vanquished.

"Have we covered the anthropic principle yet?"

Yes, bears in detail. The weak and the strong version of it.

"I am also not clear on why the infinite (in space or time) categorically cannot exist. Presumably this includes God?"

The concept of infinity is useful in math but no infinite number of actual, material entities can exist in reality. It leads to logic contradictions. Google "Hilbert's Hotel" for a detailed explanation. God is not made of matter and so is not limited by this restriction.

no Best it showed a forced example of people in a VERY unnatural situation (slavery) and showed a condenced process that does not occur naturally.

Best possible universe reminds me of

"I'm not saying that we'd be here if the universe were different."

I'm not saying you're saying that either. I know you're saying that the values of the constants were arrived at by chance and we just assume they must have been chosen so that we could exist. I get that. (And always did.)

What I'm saying is that the odds of the constants being what they are by chance is so remote (according to physicists who are not young earth creationists and some are atheists) that it looks suspiciously like they were designed for us. You have it backwards.

naturally so quickly (posted too soon)

"A bit of snow = an ice age? How can your model explain the complete lack of evidence for an ice age in the last 6000 years in the written record? A bridge to Madagascar and Australia should have been worthy of mention too?"

I didn't say "a bit of snow." The Bible is not a science textbook. ( Good thing too because science textbooks always need to be revised. The Bible does not.) But when it makes a comment on science, in my worldview, it is accurate. I am not troubled by the fact that the Bible does not give every last detail about world history but I am pleased that it is consistent with what we know.

The Bible was written primarily in the middle east. There is no reason why the ice age could not have been going on farther north at the same time for about 900 years after the flood while the Egyptians were building their pyramids. (This is also where neanderthals and 'cave men' fit in.") Underwater land bridges which connect every continent would have been exposed during the ice age (due to the water trapped in ice causing lower ocean levels).

"Also things can be infinite and have a clearly defined beginning. The natural numbers are infinite, but start at 1."

Confirming what I said - infinities are only possible in math. Try having an actual infinite number of donuts. You can always add one more. You would run out of particles in the universe to make the donuts from.

"best you are simply incorrect that the universe cannot be infinite in size if it is finite in time. This is just not a requirement in the maths. Many different models currently under discussion in my current building have the universe as finite in time but not space."

I will check into it but for now we will just have to agree to disagree. I am making a falsifiable prediction based on the Bible that the universe is not infinite in size. If I turn out to be right, please remember this conversation and don't just fall back on the "yes, but science makes progress" argument.

"any date you would like to pin yout reputation on?"

I don't do that and disrespect anyone who does. Jesus said no one knows the day or the hour so when someone predicts the end of the world on a certain day, I tell them, "I don't know when it is but I know it's not then."

I make scientific predictions I would stake my reputation on, however. They won't find life on Mars. If they do it will prove to have come from earth.

Anyone else willing to make a falsifiable scientific prediction? (Excluding Pedro since he/she doesn't understand how scientists use that word.)

And not just fossil rabbits in the Pre-Cambrian. Something new and radical where the opposite finding would cause to you to question evolution, the age of the earth, or the existence of God. I have named several. I'd be really curious to see what people come up with.

"Best how do you square the quote saying "in this generation" and you responding that the day of judgement isn't here yet. We're way past one generation after Jesus, regardless of how old you think the earth is."

VBisme, Jesus was referring to those exact people - the religious leaders Jesus was criticizing for being hypocrites. One day they will be resurrected along with the people of Nineveh (and you and me too) and they will apparently be judged by the Ninevehites. It's not something I ever gave any thought to until just now because I don't spend as much time as I should reading the Bible and spend most my time studying science and debating with nice folks like you.

"(actually, strike that, you book reckons people can live for a millennium)"

Yes, and modern science says that the first person to live to be 1,000 is alive today. Modern medicine is just now learning to reverse the effects of mutations which began at the Fall. Living to be 1,000 is not only possible according to science but it is a prediction I would make based on the Bible. Meanwhile atheists will scoff at it and when they are proven wrong they won't admit it. I've seen it hundreds of time.

"But you actually just admitted that something he said hasn't come true"

Many prophecies have not been fulfilled yet. I'm sure you realize that and you are (as you are wont to do) just finding a flaw where none exists. But how can I talk about prophecies with a person who doesn't even understand scientific predictions. Jesus said, "If you don't trust me with earthly things how can you trust me with heavenly things?" He constantly provided evidence, by the way, and never asked for blind faith.

Hey, if you guys want me to make you really upset we could talk about "The Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism" or why an atheist cannot logically believe that it is objectively wrong to torture babies for fun. Might be a bit off topic, though, and it will just start a whole to firestorm of controversy.

Bible prophecies are funny and worthless.

This one for example:

Jeremiah 31:15
Thus saith the Lord; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.

This is apparently predicting the massacre of newborn babies at the time of the birth of Jesus. Expect that a) it doesn't say anything about a massacre of newborn babies at the time of the birth of Jesus and b) there was no massacre.

Other than that it was spot on :)

Oh and Bestvalue I'm perfectly capable of explaining how there is no objective morality if you can find someone capable of listening, but the may want to avoid the specific baby references since your god has killed so many. He was the first baby killer and his thirst for it has never been equalled.