Just curious - how many muslims are on mumsnet?

[Galvanise]

Hello/Salaam,

I know mumsnet has a wide and diverse population and I tend to recognise some MN usernames as regulars. Just intrigued to know how big/small a community it may be.

Of course, I respect that there may be those who do not wish to even identify themselves for various reasons - which is fine too.

I am not asking for 'religiousness' levels or any vital stats! Nor is this a muslim-only thread or an 'no non-muslims' thread.
If you really wish to tell me that you are not a muslim, that is fine too :)

:)

And I wasn't judging, nor patronising. (Although I have come to understand over the years that any questioning of someone's religious practices can be perceived as patronising that person).

Believe it or not, I don't really care how anyone here lives their lives and since I'm not a practicing Muslim, I'm not here to claim my way of practicing Islam is better than your way.

I avoid facial depictions and music too. I dont get hysterical if I someone is playing music or if I hear it.

My girls have dolls and cuddly toys tho.

I don't have pictures and photos up around the house either.

It's personal.

I don't think I've ever had a strict phase either.

I pray five times a day (or as near as possible), I recite the Quran every day, I try to give in charity and I try to always behave with kindness and courtesy to others.

I don't think "converts live in a bubble away from other Muslims". I do think however that many converts get convinced of some strange things, possibly in part because they are then following a fundamentalist imam.

My question was whether or not they are aware that these are very extreme practices that are in no way "normal" (as in practiced by majority of Muslims). I ask it because I am curious and I suspect that they might be told that these are normal Muslim practices.

"is there any chance a footballer could be worshipped? "

Like Jesus is worshipped in Christian churches, as God?

No.

Music and depictions of humans are disliked. There's discussion surrounding how disliked they are but there's no debate it's disliked especially music.

Cote, the rulings on pictures and music come from hadith, and are well known. The issue about pictures is not just idolatry, there is a hadith that states that angels won't enter a house where there are dogs or pictures.
As Crescent said, the general principle is agreed upon by the scholars, though they differ in the details, for example some Maliki scholars hold that photos are OK.
I'm aware that many Muslims in Muslim countries do not follow these rulings, but this is no basis at all for disregarding these rulings. As a Muslim I feel I should follow the majority of scholarly Muslims, not the majority of Muslim people!
Like Nailak, I don't live in a bubble. I have friends from many different backgrounds and due to my husbands work come into contact with Muslim families of various heritages every day. Many of my friends are not as strict as me on these issues, I respect their choice and they respect mine, as we have all done on this thread.
My husbands family, who come from a Muslim country and live in a small village, follow the same rulings as we do.

Cote, I don't know about others but I have no contact with any imams lol, neither do most of the Muslim women I know! I don't get this idea that imams influence us that greatly, we watch lectures and read books and stuff and take on the ideas which we agree with. I watched Anwar al awlaki say that the west is dar Ul harb and civilians are legitimate targets, does that mean I am going tomautimatically agree with him? Of course not. I have seen anjem choudary say ridiculous things I am not gonna go and start marching for shariah in the uk.

And because we don't live in a bubble, we tend to see a diversity of beliefs and know what it normal. How could we not? When I was younger it was normal to see Muslim guys in the clubs drinking, committing zina etc, what is normal is diversity.

I don't wear headscarf which is a majority-followed thing in Sunni islam as we all know but I also follow the Hadith rulings and don't have pictures or photos up in the house. My kids have pics on their clothes and stuffed toys and I follow an opinion that its gone to have these things because they are not being hung up to display or be revered by anyone. Many I know won't have toys with faces and buy clothes with pics and that's their personal choice.

You see, this is the sort of thing that really surprises me about the small Muslim groups in the UK - many of you seem to be incredibly fundamentalist, much more so than the Muslim world at large.

"Muslim art" has traditionally been based on geometry rather than figures, and yes, that has to do with the reluctance to depict the important figures of Islam. However, if you are going to mention Ottomans, you must also remember Ottoman miniature art that was full of human figures. You might also like to take a look at Ottoman classical music not to mention totally independent popular music of the people, with wandering poet/musicians "duelling" with their lyrics.

In fact, how many Muslim countries can you think of where music and pictures/photos are just not done? Does this tell you shunning music & photos is "normal" or "fringe" among Muslims?

Thinking back at the Taliban, the whole world (including Muslims) was horrified when they blew up the ancient Buddha statues and banned music in Afghanistan. I am really surprised that otherwise reasonable people on MN might actually think that their actions were perfectly normal.

I'm curious now: How many here think Taliban are extremist and "fringe" and how many think they are "normal" Muslims? (not talking about their terrorist activities, but just their beliefs)

"hadith that states that angels won't enter a house where there are dogs or pictures"

You see, this is what fundamentalism is: Taking things all very literally. Even if Mohammad actually said that (and that is a considerable IF), you can also choose to understand WHY he said it (he is talking to an illiterate and uneducated population of people, and probably thinks it's best to just nip in the bud any possibility that they might slip into idolatry) and REALISE that is not a worry for you. You are not at all likely to start worshipping your baby's lovely smiling photo instead of Allah, so it is perfectly fine to have it up on the wall. Children are not about to worship their teddies instead of Allah, so it's fine for them to have it.

If you are going to take something literally, why not take Quran literally? Quran says in several places that it is complete, perfect, fully-detailed, and all you need to know to be a good Muslim. Does the Quran say anything about not listening to music? No. Does it say anything about not having any pictures in your house or animal toys for your children? No. Therefore, you don't have to do these things. QED.

cote we have been through this, the Quran tells us to follow Muhammad sas and so we follow this commandment in Quran through sunnah.

Cote it is easy to say it is not a worry for us, but educated and literate people worship idols lol, and Muslims who are educated and literate worship saints, do tawwaf round graves/shrines etc so maybe it isnt that easy? Hadith says some things are more harm then good, like alcohol, hadith says it has good but has more harm then good.

As for the Taliban thing, from my OU course materials, The taliban agreed to leave the statues with unesco, on the principle they were doing no harm and Islam tells us to leave what is not harming us. However a unsesco representative went to Afghanistan to give money for preserving a museum or something, and the leader said why are you giving money to preserve stones when people are dying and hungry and need food and medicine, and then because they felt that the statues were taking away money that could otherwise go to people it was harmful to have the statues. This is not an extremist interpretation, this is from my OU course!!

I would also consider hadith rejectors or Quranists as out of Ahl sunnah wa Jammah

Perhaps it just happens to me then. But listening to music does take my heart away from better things, when I listen to music sometimes I'll wake with that tune in my head. I don't need that

The Quran is sent down as divine guidance the Prophets sunnah instructs us in how to implement it.

We aren't told to just stop at the Quran it's our starting point it tells us to search further and to reflect & learn.

Why does it bother you that some of us don't do things the way you think are correct?

The more I read here on this thread, the more it freaks me out. Avoid music and taping out or gouging out teddy bear eyes? No Muslim friend of mine does that... and don't tell me those Muslims I know are not "true" Muslims or whatever. I don't care really, this is a debate that Muslims should have with each other, so don't bother debating with me if this is right or wrong to think or do things this way or that. I was told by my Muslim friends that Muslims in England are either very "extreme" or very liberal. Well it sounds like its true. Some of you here sound like verging on the "extreme" end to me. And this coming from a non Muslim who grew up in an East Asian country with 15% Muslims.

Who taps/gouges eyes out of toys?

That's your opinion firefly but read above the very valid points that other posters have made regarding following Hadith and Quran. Literate and educated people practise idol worship...fact, so it makes perfect sense to stay away from hanging up pictures and the like altogether. Same with alcohol for example, we know that not EVERYONE becomes an alcoholic by drinking it but there will always be a minority that do, hence why we stay away from it as directed in Quran and Hadith. And nobody said on here that they gouge out teddies eyes lol that was a joke nailak made. I and other posters have already stated that our kids have toys with faces and clothes with pictures on, so I really will never ever be able to understand how on earth that is extreme.

firefly what makes you say that? no one here tapes the eyes of teddy bears either? waynetta doesnt believe in wearing hijab, have we told her she is not a true muslim or whatever?

If this is a debate that muslims should have with each other, then what exactly do you think we are doing here because i thought we were having that debate with each other?

what would you count as extreme? who gets to decide what extreme is?

Mustn't discuss weather there'll be a (snowball) fight.

Peoplz don't like mozlemz to be religious & yet utterly tolerant and normal.

To a non Muslim, and even to some Muslims, that is "extreme". You do know that, right? See, the nice parts of the religion are peddled out to non Muslims - the ones about love, compassion, kindness, etc. But if one starts learning more about it, it becomes apparent that some Muslims (and these are a very vocal group) say : Actually, you know what? Music is bad. Dancing is bad. Showing your hair is bad. X is bad. Y is bad. The list goes on. And we can trot out whole lists of quotes from our holy books and rationalise it all to you so it makes sense.

The devil is in the details.

If this is the "face" of Islam I was presented with, never in a million years would I convert. But I'm glad I have a more balanced view of Islam from my experience of growing up in a country with more Muslims than here, and especially, more Muslims who are less "extreme". And yes of course this is just my own opinion. I just tell it as I see it.

Can we discuss lamb?

I need inspiration.

I'm making lamb casserole with mash tomorrow.

But I need to extend my repertoire. Any culinary geniuses on this thread?

i dont get it firefly, do you think people should base their behaviour and beliefs on what other people find acceptable?

who said dancing is bad? I was talking on the thread about Somalian weddings and dancing? I even linked to some dancing?

Does everything have to be good? are there not some things which are bad in this world, even though they have some good in them?

and yes you are right in a way, when the Quran was revealed first came the verses about belief and who is Allah, then came the laws, and people follow this formula. Because once you understand who Allah is, and what it means to believe in Allah, then you understand the wisdom of following His laws.

To some Muslims and non muslims even what is extreme? and should we modify our beliefs and behaviour because of that?

You know firefly only you are saying these things are bad.

We've (flippantly) touched on music and nobody has condemned anyone for showing their hair listening to music or OMG having toys for their kids!

I try not to listen to music.

I've not been rude or opinionated about anyone who does.