Cool Choirs, Clappy Choruses, Cringy Coffee: Religion Chat Thread No 5

[madhairday]

I thought seeing as our other thread has gone somewhere into the oblivion that is old MN pages, I would start us up again anew for a new term. This is a place for those who are Christians (and anyone who's not, we're not an exclusive little club) to chat about life, theology, church, any other stuff and of course Graham Kendrick, as nickel would not forgive me if I forgot to mention him

So all welcome, old and new, it would be fun to chat and chew over anything that comes to mind. Lurkers say hello!

Anyone got a nice juicy topic to get the ball rolling then? Or if not come say hi anyway and tell us how you are doing. :)

Well we had 'family church' at home yesterday as the car is embedded in mud on the drive and we can't get it out (hoping to find someone to tow it out today). It did mean that I got to choose the songs though .

niminy is that the same as the 40 Acts thing? I was looking at it yesterday (there is a bit for children if you scroll down).

I just finished reading a book and really don't know what to make of it. It's called Heaven is for real. Has anyone read it?

milly that site looks interesting. Count your blessings is here. I think I might download the app and then we'll get a reminder every day.

Greenheart... we had a service of thanksgiving for women's ministry round here last Sunday too. Is it an anniversary or something? I'd have quite liked to have gone, but DH ( rabid convinced atheist) struggles with me going to church once a week and I felt that twice in one day wouldn't have gone down well, especially as we're both so busy that we barely see one another at the moment.

I have downloaded the Count Your Blessings app. Still looking for reading recommendations if anyone has anything....?

niminy - maybe that's his secret - the last incumbent was a right proper knobhead (i may have mentioned this before)

We had My God How Wonderful You are last night, which i got upset about.
the correct My God How Wonderful Thou Art has got some amazing and beautiful lyrics, and all the best ones have been chopped out or changed completely in the Hideous book's version, and it leaves me feeling very deflated.

Proof positive if it were needed that DH never lets me near the music sheet when he's compiling it.

Proper words:

"My God, how wonderful thou art,
thy majesty how bright,
how beautiful thy mercy seat,
in depths of burning light!

How dread are thine eternal years,
O everlasting Lord,
by prostrate spirits day and night
incessantly adored!

How wonderful, how beautiful,
the sight of thee must be,
thine endless wisdom, boundless power,
and aweful purity!

O how I fear thee, living God,
with deepest, tenderest fears,
and worship thee with trembling hope
and penitential tears!

Yet I may love thee too, O Lord,
almighty as thou art,
for thou hast stooped to ask of me
the love of my poor heart.

No earthly father loves like thee,
no mother, e'er so mild,
bears and forbears as thou hast done
with me, thy sinful child.

Father of Jesus, love's reward,
what rapture it will be,
prostrate before thy throne to lie,
and gaze and gaze on thee! "

shit words:
"My God, how wonderful You are,
Your majesty, how bright;
How beautiful Your mercy seat,
In depths of burning light!

1. How wonderful, how beautiful,

The sight of You must be; Your endless wisdom, boundless power, And glorious purity! (Hideous book has awesome purity)

3. O how I fear you, living God,

With deep and tender fear;
And worship you with trembling hope,
And penitential tears!

1. Yet, I may love you, too, O Lord,

Almighty as You are; For You have stooped to ask of me The love of my poor heart! "

I'm sure there's another verse in the Hideous book that's a poor cousin of the last verse about being at His eternal throne.

Tuo: I'm thinking of Stephen Cottrell's book of meditations on Stanley Spencer, or Abiding by Ben Quash.

Oh nickel I agree with you on that one. Leave the old words as they are. We did that 'Bread of Heaven' hymn yesterday and it was all 'I will ever give to you' and I got cross and --shouted- whispered to dh 'it's thee, not you.' I hate it when they mess with them - I may be a HC type but love my old hymns too :)

I do love In Christ Alone, niminy, but it has to be done proper. 80s stadium rock can have its place, as long as it's BonJovi-esque as opposed to Robson and Jerome-esque

Milly, I think I've read that book, is it the one about the little boy who has an accident and is in a coma and sees visions of heaven? I was a little about it in some places, there were bits that didn't ring true to me but I can be a little sceptical - bits were good though. What did you think?

My crossest one about hymns is the Hideous Book version of crown him with many crowns. It takes out 'ineffably sublime' and replaces it with something most definitely not sublime, let alone ineffable - I always get really snippy if I have to sing that version. The lyrics are so beautiful. why change them? grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

at Robson and Jerome singing In Christ Along. at Jon Bon Jovi singing In Christ Alone.

I'd pay to see the latter, niminy

Yeah me too, and I'd buy a lighter to take along

Ha! Then he'd also have to do 'Blaze Spirit Blaze'

Fabarooney!

the thing that makes so sense about the "aweful purity" is that ion another hymn we sang on Sunday, they kept in the word aweful!

so it's not even consistent.

along with "ooh, we don't do soldiers and fighting and triumphalism, so we've made Onward Christian Pilgrims (not marching as to war), but we're keeping in Fight the Good Fight and When a Knight Won his Spurs..."

mhd - i get cross with "feed me till i want no more" instead of "feed me now and evermore" - i know it means "need" (in which case, why not blimmin say need ), but it sounds like there'll one day be an end to needing God's Love, and I don't think that's right.

Oh please, please can I just puke and vomit and barf everywhere?

Our team rector has just posted a tweet saying:
"So now we know what the Pope is giving up for Lent; what are you gonna do? #livelent #Pope"

fine.
someone who follows him on fb has just posted "Going to "give up" everything to God. "

please!
[boak][boak][boak]

I actually feel a bit like mhd and nickel when I have to sing How great thou art in English . It isn't even a favourite hymn but the English version misses out so much from the Swedish original.

There are a couple of worship songs that have been translated into Romanian (the one I can remember most is 'Blessed be the name' (Matt Redman I think - who btw won a Grammy last night)) and they just don't convey the meaning at all. I always want to shout 'no no no that's not what he meant' but have so far restrained myself .

MHD yes that's the book. I went into it very sceptical but I really don't know. If it's all exactly as they say then it would seem true but I just don't know...

i'd love to know the proper translation ginger

mhd just checked the hideous book and crown him's words are correct. have you got an even more hideous book then the hideous book?

I told NV (that's new vicar's name now) that the hideous book was so called
I love that he's my age (2 years younger :() because it makes him more approachable

Nickel wait till you are older than your minister's mother

it's funny cos asst organist has an age complex and he's relieved that even I'm older then NV.
one of the choir made a "funny" comment yesterday about NV being the only one in thechoirstalls without grey hair and I had to shout up "hang on! I'm not that old!"

Nickel, Hine, the British methodist missionary to the Ukraine whose translation is the one that is generally used in English language hymnals actually did a paraphrase based on a version in Russian that had been translated from German (!) and then he began to add verses as it fitted with is missionary work, so there are verses in English that don't appear in teh Swedish original at all. Mind you, the Swedish version has nine verses, I would have thought that would suffice! There is a more literal translation into English made by an American fellow, I think probably a first or second generation Swedish immigrant. I'll see if I can find it and do a comparison to see how close it is to Broberg's original. Hine's version was adopted instead of the American one because it was felt that the language was more modern and I guess some of the imagery was easier for non-Swedish non-nature-romantics to understand.

ooh lovely, yes please :)

I like old fashioned words and I would love to see what the imagery is in the original.

Milly - I read that book last year and a few people at church have read it. I'm not quite sure what to make of it - if you google the title and reviews there are mixed reviews and some of it seems to be discredited but on the other hand it was actually quite inspiring to read and got me excited about heaven in a fresh way- regardless of the accuracy of that specific book - it was a reminder that we will one day meet face to face with Jesus . My internal image of heaven is of being "home" and somehow I don't feel I need to know the details...

cool.

I've found the original swedish but cab't find a translation tool that will do the whole thing in one go.
När jag den verld beskådar
Som du har skapat
Med ditt allmaktsord,
Hur der din visdom
Leder lifvets trådar,
Och alla väsen
Mättas vid ditt bord;

Då brister själen
Ut i lofsångsljud:
O store Gud!
O store Gud!

När jag betraktar
Himlens höga under,
Der gyllne verldsskepp
Plöja etern blå,
Och sol och måne
Mäta tidens stunder
Och vexla om,
Som tvänne klockor gå;

När jag hör åskans
Röst i stormen brusa
Och blixtens klingor
Springa fram ur skyn,
När regnets kalla,
Friska vindar susa
Och löftets båge
Glänser för min syn;

När vestanvindar
Susa öfver fälten,
När blommor dofta
Omkring källans strand,
När trastar drilla
I de gröna tälten
Ur furuskogens
Tysta, dunkla rand;

När jag i bibeln
Skådar alla under,
Som Herren gjort
Sen förste Adams tid,
Hur nådefull
Han varit alla stunder
Och hjälpt sitt folk
Ur lifvets synd och strid;

När jag hör dårar
I sin dårskaps dimma
Förneka Gud
Och håna hvad han sagt,
Men ser likväl,
Att de hans hjälp förnimma
Och uppehållas
Af hans nåd och makt;

Och när jag ser
Hans bild till jorden sväfva
Och göra väl
Och hjälpa öfverallt,
När jag ser satan
Fly och döden bäfva
För Herren i
Förklarad korsgestalt:

När tryckt af syndens
Skuld jag faller neder
Vid nådens tron
Och ber om nåd och frid
Och han min själ
På rätta vägen leder
Och frälsar mig
Från all min synd och strid;

När slutligt alla
Tidens höljen falla,
Och i åskådning
Byter sig min tro,
Och evighetens
Klara klockor kalla
Min frälsta ande
Till dess sabbatsro;

Då brister själen
Ut i lofsångsljud
Tack, gode Gud!
Tack, gode Gud!