Should we have women bishops in the Church of England?

[uwila]

Following on from some comments on the child guru saya nurseries harm small children thread , I thought it was time I raise the subject in its own thread. Mumsnetter Beartime seems to think that it is woman?s role, according to scripture, to be submissive and serve her husband. Now I most certainly consider myself a Christian (Anglican), but I am really struggling to reconcile my commitment to these views as well as my very firm belief that women have a right to be equal to men in this world. And this brings me to the current debate of Anglicans Get Women Bishops Plan

If you are Anglican, do you believe women should be bishops? Do you believe that your primary purpose on this earth is to serve your husband?

Please somebody tell me that I am not alone in thinking these scripture were appropriate in the time in which they were written, but that it is right to think that need not be applied so literally to modern times.

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you take everything in the bible literally and believe anyone who doesn't is not a proper Christian?

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well thats certainly the gist i have got from previous debates with you bloss.

do you believe in evolution Bloss?

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oh good that is one thing we agree on!

Ruty's posts do remind me of the things i did find good in christianity, and do demonstrate that for some it is possible to be both a christian and a feminist.

however, for me, after much reflection (a long time ago now), the bad and - in my view - oppressive aspects of christianity did outweigh the good bits. these things Ruty talks about are things i find in secular circles too - commitment to social justice, care of others, preparedness to stand up for your beliefs. For me, i feel far more at home, ideologically and emotionally, and especially as a feminist, in the atheist/humanist camp.

I thonk that the probelm with the submissive wife is when you put it into the context of a society that puts less value on a woman's worth than a man's. In the situation you describe there would be parity. But in practive submission tends to be expected to be follwed a whole lot more than the 'laying down his life ' bit, don't you think?

It isn't the religious aspect that is the issue, to my mind, so much as the context it is placed within and the uses that men have made of it over the years.

that's fair enough fennel.

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I just worry that because of the religious doctrine a disproportionate amount of power is given to the men, and the society (and dare I say it sometimes the church) doesn't enforce the checks and balances that would redress the power balence.

Bloss, if you serve him and he serves you then that is not woman being submissive. It is woman and man submitting to each other. I think this is very different from the things that Beartime said, which prompted me to start this thread. She talks about womans role to submit, and nothing about man's role to do the same.

I do, however, very much believe that man's interpretation of the bibe is not always what is actually in the bible.

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When Paul told the women of Ephesus to submit to their husbands, he was telling them to do something they were perhaps reluctant to do. He could have told men the same thing, but he did not need to because men generally don't need to be told to 'submit' to their wives.

Just because he didn't give the same instruction to men, it doesn't mean it doesn't apply - just that it is not necessary.

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I haven't read the whole thread (yet).

hmmmm, not so sure about men not needing to be told to 'submit to their wives' I can think of a few where that would be sensible

There is no distinction in scripture between presbyters and bishops, therefore if you agree with women priests, you should automatically agree with women bishops; if you don't approve of women bishops then you shouldn't agree with women priests.

Maybe in Ephesus, the men were always ready, willing and able!

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so bloss do you believe in women bishops?

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why not?

sorry i mean why do you think equality is not an important issue?

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