Why do some people find it hard to believe in God?

[MosEisley]

I believe in God.

However, I am attending an adult confirmation class and we have been asked to consider why some people do not believe in God. DH and I came up with:

• there is no absolute proof of God's existence
• they are rebelling against a strict organised religion that they can't accept as literallly true

If you know someone who doesn't believe in God, why don't they?

Takes a lot of cognitive dissonance, trying to square all those circles. (Or circularise triangles in the case of the Trinity.)

Oh yeah, it's crazy. I'm aware. :o But it is true nonetheless.

I don't really do the Trinity. It's just not my thang. Jesus was all, "I dunno, guys, but my Dad does." Which to me implies they are two beings.

I suppose I'm saying: if you don't rely on a god to give life meaning, and if you don't have politics to give life meaning, how do you get through life?

It's a genuine question, although I may not be putting it very well, sorry.

And why do you strive/get out of bed in the morning? IYSWIM.

Are you really just saying you only get out of bed in the morning because of your belief in god? You get all your morals and values from your god? You have nothing ELSE of any true meaning in your life? What about your family? Your job? Your hobbies, the things you do that make you happy?

And what has politics to do with it? I have political views

You get through life by living it to the best of your ability (except for breaks to witter on MN, of course). Raise our kids, do our little bit to expand human knowledge or help other people - same as everyone else.

You can do politics of course, but so can religious people.

I'm asking: what's the point?

The brutal truth is there is no 'point', we live, we reproduce if we choose, we die, as do apes, lions and ants. We make our own meaning to our own lives. I have children and parents, I'm studying, I read, I spend time with friends. But I'll die, and that'll be the end of me, and I care not a jot.

What's your point? You live in the hope of eternal life in heaven?

As the great philosopher said, "Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."

Life is infinitely precious and fleeting. Once I'm dead then that's it - game over. As such it makes sense to make the most of my short time on earth.

Some things in life bring me joy, some things don't. I have a system of ethics/morality (based on the Golden Rule and built up from there) that I have worked on, feel comfortable with and that bring me peace.

From that foundation I can then choose an appropriate course to follow in my life. Essentially:
Do the things that bring me joy provided they do not breach my code of ethics,
Try to avoid the stuff that makes me unhappy,
Realise that sometimes I have to do things I'm not that keen on (eg the more boring bits of work, the washing-up etc) because the rewards are worth it,
And never forget to re-appraise priorities every now and then to make sure I'm not overlooking something important.
Oh, and stop and look around once in a while.

This works for me.

But allow me to turn the question around - what is it about god that gives meaning to your life that would otherwise be lacking?

The point is whatever you choose to make of it.

Who says there has to be a point?

Add God and - well, what's the point of a little kid dying of some painful disease?

For me I get out of bed to learn interesting things, experience the world, enjoy myself, make my friends and family happy, and hopefully help a few other people too.

What's the point of your life then Rapturous?

Most people are focussing here of them choosing to find out more about faith, or to follow a particular faith. This is an egocentric notion.

They are missing the point that God chooses us first. Anyone with no inclination towards the Christian faith at all may not have been chosen by God.

And what are the implications of that? That those special enough to be chosen will live forever in heaven? And those unfortunate enough to be passed over with burn in hell for all eternity?

Wasn't there some belief something like that in the sixteenth century? Predestination or something?

Depends whether you are talking single or double predestination.

Does either doctrine bother an atheist?

Nope.

Interesting to know what others are worrying themselves about on their death beds though

What is there to worry about?

I've never heard that angle before Honisoit. So I could believe but it wouldn't make any difference if I wasn't 'chosen'?

Luckily I don't.

Quite absurd Even religious people think so.

Predestination is another of those complexities which simply don't exist if you don't believe in God - so no, I can't imagine any atheist being bothered by it. If you try to think logically about an omniscient God you may come up with predestination, which is not widely adopted because its such a bloody awful notion. So God makes us all but only chooses some? He gets lovelier all the time, doesn't he?

I don't think you can really have a living faith if you are not part of the elect. If God reveals himself to you, then he is choosing you. He makes promises, such as in John 3:16, and he is a God who keeps his promises.

The debate area is for those who do not respond to or resist God's calling.

Isn't that the JW view? That there are only a certain number of people predestined to go on to an afterlife? For me the logic of that is that it really doesn't matter how you live your life, or whether you have faith or not, you either get picked or not. So why the JW evangelise is beyond me.

My view is based on my Christian upbringing, which gave me the strong message that only faith will save you (eye of a needle etc). Faith I think is something you either have or you don't IMO. I don't. There's not much point in faking it to an all knowing god.

Personally I'm not sure that faith does bring people comfort in hard times (especially for things like losing a child or watching someone you love in great pain). I've seen it bring a great deal of angst and self doubt though.

Are you going to explain your link, Ariel?

I'm sorry, I don't understand you. What about the people who listen to the doctrine, and decided that they accept God and will live according to his holy law, blah blah blah, but were not actually on God's list through no fault of their own? What happens to them?