Why do some people find it hard to believe in God?

[MosEisley]

I believe in God.

However, I am attending an adult confirmation class and we have been asked to consider why some people do not believe in God. DH and I came up with:

• there is no absolute proof of God's existence
• they are rebelling against a strict organised religion that they can't accept as literallly true

If you know someone who doesn't believe in God, why don't they?

HolofernesesHead, do you read the apocrypha with the same approach?

Why do you ask, Zideq?

Not sure was just trying to assess how much notice you take of your Religious teachers?

Which religious teachers? Who are you talking about?

Those that decide that the apocrypha was non cannon.

And who are they? Only kidding, I don't expect you to try and answer that!

Oh, Zideq, I do honestly wish I could have you round for coffee! Then we could start from the start.

What's your religious background? Like I said earlier, the types of questions we ask say more about us than about anything else. Your question implies a certain attitude to religious authority that is foreign to my faith. Do you know much about mainstream Anglicanism?

I'm from a baptist background, and I know of Anglicanism, within your tradition you have divines who set certain standards of thinking do you follow those standards?

I come from a family which is both religious and tends to science (teachers/doctors rather than actual practicing scientists till me).

As such, I don't think I ever had the scientific cultural bias Holo suggests - nor the total anti-science bias of the fundamentalists! - when it came to interpreting the Bible. The the OT was always clearly a mix of myth and not-necessarily-reliable history and poems. But - come to the NT, with the exception of Revelations, well that was supposed to be taken as gospel (pun intended), as a true record of the life of Jesus and the teachings of the founders of Christianity. I suspect this is fairly typical of many mainstream UK christians.

As such, I took it as true - miraculously true - that the Virgin birth and the Resurrection had actually happened.

Well, obviously enough once I'd stopped believing in God then clearly these things couldn't be true. And if they weren't - the whole edifice crumbles. The gospels may include things actually said by a teacher called Yeshua - maybe not - but so interspersed with events which aren't credible that I doubt any of it is a reliable account. Within that, there are still embedded a few philosophical truths (e.g the Parable of the Good Samaritan) but most of it is based on the false premise of the divinity of Christ.

GrimmaTheNome, I think it has been established that unlike many Christians I have spoken to HolofernesesHead doesn't believe that the NT is a factual account of Jesus? life I'm unsure on what she basis her faith other than her own interpretations of a spiritual book.

HolofernesesHead , do you consider yourself a Catholic?

Zid - yes - its unusual. I don't see how it works at all if you don't take at least some of the NT as actually true (rather than just 'containing spiritual truths) so I'm interested to know too!
[my post was prompted more by the reading of OT coloured by inapplicable scientific thinking idea]

I am undecided verying towards not believing because

*Why would God allow the world to have such evil in it?

• I can't see or feel his prescence *I think that we are brainwashed to believe
• Lots of stories of religious people actually doing really bad things

Zideq, within Anglicanism the word 'divine', when applied to a human being, tends to mean 'mystic' or 'influential teacher.' NB Anglican 'divines' don't always agree on things like the best interpretation of Scripture! We are not the Roman Catholic church and have no Magisterium. (which, to be fair, drives some people potty).

What we do have are the creeds, the liturgy, esp, the liturgy of the Eucharist. What I base my faith on is a lifetime of following Jesus, praying, trusting, loving, wrestling with God, worshipping, questioning, receiving. That faith is renewed and shaped by the church. It is more than enough for me!

Why do you think that I don't think the NT is a factual account of Jesus' life? It's an interpreted acount for sure, like all biographies are, but I certainly believe in the historical Jesus and as I've already said, I believe in the incarnation and resurrection, which makes me pretty conservative by certain standards. I think you just like to write me off as a dirty renegade maverick librul so that you don't have to lisen to what I'm saying.

WomanScorned, those are great questions. Must go out though! Might be back later.

Grimma - are you and Zideq ganging up on me to have me cast out of the camp as a dirty librul? (Only kidding!) (X posted with you)

Holo... ah well I was just demonstrating how texts can get misinterpreted...

TBH I'd not inferred what Zid had re you and NT but assumed she'd given that a closer reading as she was particularly interested. I stand corrected

That's okay, Grimma! the perils of anonymous internet fora! I'd love to have the lot of you round for coffee/ late night wine (not that I can drink alcohol - sigh...)

Zid, if you're still around, I just noticed that I x-posted with you a few times. Yes, I'm aware that Baptist ministers, on the whole, would not agree with me - which is fine by me. Have you really read countless books? that's a lot! Have you thought about doing some formal academic study on all this, and getting a degree / diploma or something? If you've done that much reading, you might as well get a qualification out of it and it sounds as if you'd find a degree very easy if you've really read that much. As for whether I'm a Catholic, I quote the Nicene Creed: 'We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church...'

I never knew what that meant when, as a child, we'd sometimes go to sung evensong in a cathedral when on holiday. As a nonconformist I didn't know the creed, 'catholic' meant the lot over the road who we were friendly with but they were a bit different y'know.... so I'd say along most of it but mumble the 'catholic' bit

Grimma! Sounds like that comedy sketch wit Rowan Atkinson et al saying the Creed! 'Catholic' with a small 'c' means 'universal', so 'the church in all the world.' It's a way of saying that all Christians belong to each other, however much we might disagree on various issues, and that the church is lesser without any of its parts. So I would say that I'm ultra-catholic because I really, really believe that! I'm also quite Anglo-Catholic, although I don't like everything that gets said and done in the name of Anglo-Catholicism...

I must also add though, particularly to answer Zid's question, that the Roman Catholic church has had a huge impact on me in various ways - if you know anything about St Ignatius of Loyola, whom I've mentioned a few times on this thread, you'll have worked that one out already!

oh, I've never seen that sketch ...wonder if it's on YouTube... I did realise long after the event that it was small-c catholic as in 'catholic tastes' (whats that then? transubstantiatable bread and wine?)

Grimma!

Thanks - ah well not quite, I was OK with most of it at the time except that one word.

Catholic with a big 'C' (usually thought of as Roman Catholic but also eg Anglo-Catholic within the C o f E) seeks the best possible continuty with the early church - so 'apostolic sucession' is a big deal because it's about the faith being passed down from one generation to the next faithfully. And yes, the Real Presence in the Eucharist, the 7 sacraments and other beliefs. It's not a static tradition though, it grows with each generation.

Hello

I haven't abandoned the discussion, I have been a bit too unwell over the last couple of days. Will have a read through, it's all interesting stuff :)

The 'catholic' stuff in the creed used to confuse me no end too. I think it should be replaced with the word 'universal' or 'church worldwide' or some such - it confuses my dc now

Madhair rather than being replaced I think that explaining the definition of the word catholic would be better. After all, it doesn't only pertain to religion. I also think an explanation of the creed would be better than just getting children/people to recite something which they don't fully understand.

hi have been speaking woth ds 2 and he came out with something that made me grin

He said people invented relgion to explain the science they could not understand