Any one else mad we've lost sight of the real Christmas?

[slapheadsrock]

There are people really hung up already on the trimmings for christmas dinner. Why?
The lights are on already in our town centre. Why?

I'm so fed up that christmas starts earlier and earlier. And do any of the people out there stuffing their faces and houses with things give a second thought to why they are celebrating christmas?

Perhaps this thread will make you think twice this year about what you are really taking part in.

If you are not Jewish, do you celebrate Hannukah?
So why celebrate christmas if you don't believe in Jesus?

Feel better now. Thanks for reading.

an old family friend once got so fed up with the excess of pc right-on-ness surrounding him he made himself a badge that said "nuke a whale for christ"

this thread just reminded me of that...

that's killed it

I want to be a thread-killer! Let me kill this one!

No.

Yes!

I don't think so!

Ha!

Hey, don't kill this thread! I've only just finished reading it!

slapheads rock(love your name) exactly!!The majority of the poulation in Uk shouldnt be celebrating Christmas!!!!!!!!!!

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Didnt mean to sound like Mrs Scrooge! Bah Humbug

I like celebrating christmas because I get time off work, relaxing, eating to excess, drinking to excess and watching gratuitous amounts of TV.

It's never occurred to me that belief in Jesus is a pre-requisite for any of this.

Absolutley. How dare anyone celebrate anything at all!
As an ex-Catholic, now aethiest, I have seen a number of different families celebrate Christmas in different ways. For my parents' it is about giving and receiving, celebrating the Christmas story and being together as a family. It is religious, but not to the exclusion of other traditions (such as going for walks and eating the same meal every year). However it's not very enjoyable when my mother gets her occasional "no one should be eating so much" worries. I can't see that there is a problem to both enjoy yourselves as a family, and be charitable to others at the same time. For my sister's children, it's about "Jesus' birthday" (they are quite evangelical) and they celebrate it as a birthday, with presents and a party. For my dh's family it's about getting together and getting drunk, and letting the kids do whatever they like. Fun, but not very spiritual. For me, I try to find a happy medium. This is a Christian country, and Christmas is part of the culture of our country. That means it is an evolving thing, no longer entirely pagan, and no longer entirely Christian, as is England/Great Britain. I think for most people family is at the heart of it, and for many people it is also very important to have a festival of light in the middle of winter. So some of both traditions are at the heart of why most people celebrate. I used to hate the decorations etc going up early, but now I enjoy it, as the children love it, and although I have no wish to personally festoon my house with tacky lights, I love to sit on the bus and see everyone else's I can't quite see the purpose of trying to trash other people's enjoyment? After all that other people do things differently shouldn't spoil our own traditions (should it?). Anyway, Easter is the really significant Christian tradition. Oh, and I think Jesus would have worn something more individual than a standard Gap top! ;)

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Well it is true that we are now much more multi-cultural, and that churchgoing Christians are in decline, but our culture is very heavily influenced by Christianity, and many people still sign up to some parts of Christian belief, if not in a very committed way. So I think that the roots are still quite strong (if getting less so). Didn't the last census come up about 70% Christian?

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And in my understanding of christianity, multi-cultural, multi-faith society is a christian type of society.

But I know that more extreme branches of my denomination wouldn't agree with me.

Interesting article there. The English question was "What is your religion?", and of course many people would tick the Christian box, who don't practice anything. But the point I was making is not that we are a country of practicing Christians, but that our culture is heavily influenced by Christianity, as is the West in general. I just don't think that several hundred years of being the dominant philosophy and practice can be wiped out in a generation or two. Now much of that philosophy is held in common with other great world faiths (importance of family, forgiveness and loving others etc), so it might be difficult to seperate out what is "only" Christian, and what is multi-cultural, but I would still hold that as a culture and country we mainly follow a Christian tradition. One of the interesting things about this, is that many of us who have as it were turned against Christianity (and I would hold myself as one of them) feel that our personal beliefs are universal, but they are probably heavily influenced by the values in our upbringing, and the dominant views expressed in this country. If we had grown up in, say India, we might have very different ideas (especially thinking about the different belief systems in Buddism for example).

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my sister teaches in a very good C of E school in London, and the muslims in the catchment area get to go. I know its more complicated than that, and I agree its not the best solution, but Co e schools are not as exclusive as some. And I agree with fisil that a Christian country is a multi faith, multi culture society, absolutely. I think it is easy to knock Christianity or dismiss its influence on our society. I am a big critic of the misuse of Christianity and know it has been responible for some shameful things. But the core
Christian values of Forgiveness, Tolerance, and Love I believe have had a huge effect on our society. We have, actually, in the context of the world, a very good human rights record, and a very good culture of tolerance and a healthy culture of great art where all manner of pretensions and hypocrisies can be lampooned. East to say this doesn't stem from Christianity [I'm not saying its totally responsible] but how do we know how our culture would have turned out if we had not the history that we do? OK, i'm really putting my neck on the line here, shoot me down!

and don't talk to me about America - the society that dominates now is too 'new' to have evolved religiously and spiritually - that's why its so darn Evangelical.

also, C of E schools do teach a balance of different Faiths in their Religious Studies - i'm not saying C of E schools are wonderful, but they do get a very bad press, and I don't think its always deserved. Gulp! Scared now..

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yeah, i can go with that pruni - i'm torn actually between the faith school and secular school thing - leaning towards thinking we should have secular schools only.