Any one else mad we've lost sight of the real Christmas?

[slapheadsrock]

There are people really hung up already on the trimmings for christmas dinner. Why?
The lights are on already in our town centre. Why?

I'm so fed up that christmas starts earlier and earlier. And do any of the people out there stuffing their faces and houses with things give a second thought to why they are celebrating christmas?

Perhaps this thread will make you think twice this year about what you are really taking part in.

If you are not Jewish, do you celebrate Hannukah?
So why celebrate christmas if you don't believe in Jesus?

Feel better now. Thanks for reading.

what is christmas then if not a christian celebration?

Well, I don't think just renaming something is enough personally. It predates Christianity, was celebrated before Christianity....

In fact it has thoroughly pagan roots and most of the other traditions connected with Christmas are purely secular. The religious bit is what? As far as historians can tell Christ wasn't born anywhere near 25th December.
I am perfectly happy for Christians to use a pre-existing festival if they want to, however.

i realise and agree with what you have said - howeer christmas is a christian celebration.

pagens surely celebrate something else - the pagen name which predated christmas.

am not disagreing with the fact that christmas is a re-write for pagen celebration - so now you know this - are you still going to celebrate christmas or wish everyone a happy (isnert pagen festival) ?

but christmas is christian

what do non pagens non christians celebrate? do ou celebrate christmas? your celebrating a christian festival if you are.

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They just changed the name. So what, I'm OK with that. It's what the celebration is called now. Like when they changed Marathon to Snickers.
And anyway, it has been such a fluid celebration that has changed hugely over the centuries (and millennia). The Christmas you celebrate will bear no resemblance to one celebrated a few hundred years ago, and nearly all the changes to it are purely secular.
As for what am I celebrating, well, I am having a good time. That's what it's for. That is the meaning of it, historically.

so do all you pagens wish everyone a happy saturnalia?

now other people who believe their stance is more pagan than christian know the name of the pagan festival - will you too be now celebrating saturnalia?

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It is perfectly possible to have a very jolly Christmas with no religion in it at all. Presents, trees, roast turkey, mince pies, reading 'The Night Before Christmas'...nothing remotely religious about any of it!

I'm not a pagan either, so no, I won't be wishing people a Happy Saturnalia.

they didn't just change the name theres a whole belief system attached to the name.

if it doesn't bother you that christmas is a christian clebration and its just some good times and extra time off work well thats great.

I don't have any occult or superstitious beliefs at all.

Nobody harangues Christians about their enjoying pagan or purely secular traditions, do they?

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i absolutley catagorically do not disagree with the fact that christianity laid its festivals over dates which were historically and traditionally celebrated in other ways.

i do strongly take issue with the arguemnt that christmas isn't a christian celebration. becuase the same dates were historically celebrated a different way.

i wondered therefore as people know this fact why they still celebrate a christian celebration. why not celebrate saturnalia. - thats what it used to be - thats what the "christians nicked out celebration" argument is all about.

christmas is about christ.

But the belief system is only extremely tenuously attached to the Christmas festival. For example, it is supposed to celebrate Jesus's birthday, but all the evidence is that Jesus was not born in December at all.

I actually had to rack my brains to remember what Snickers used to be called!

no they dont aloha - very good point.

It is about Christ for YOU Custardo, but not for me, and not for many, many other people. In our house, it has nothing to do with him.

i thunk i established the fact that i do not disagree with the fact that christianity moved its celebrations to fit existing ones.

of course the dates for when we celebrate the conception of christ and his birthday dont match up - any 5 year old can work that one out! thats not the argument is it?

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I think if you want to go to Church and have all that stuff, then that is your Christmas. I do think however that Christmas as a festival is only very tenuously religious. You couldn't have Passover with the religious element, for example. It is perfectly possible to have Christmas and IMO that is because it is essentially not Christian.

aloha i understand it isnt about that for you - but that doesnt mean it isn't a chtristian festival

Actually I do think it's the argument. I could easily say, what are Christians celebrating at Christmas?

the birth of christ?