Canticles, charisma and chat (Religion thread number 2)

[BaroqueAroundTheClock]

the first one is nearly full.

Anyone welcome, it's basically a "what happened in church/spiritual life/anything else you want to chat about that's vaguely related (or not) to churchy stuff.

I have just receive through the post:

a postcard of our church from ebay (£3.75 inc post! but it's post war, judging by the clothes - nice juxtaposition of modern life (clothes, car) and old life (horse drawn carriagE), plus, the 2 crosses on the roof are there (very few photos show these) and you can see the wall where the railings have been removed.
at the bottom of the photos page

and

2 Voice For Life medals and a chorister's Companion presentation pocket book.
The medals are for future use and the Chorister's Companion is a Confirmation present for one of our choristers - she's being confirmed on the 22nd, and we've got her a gift from the Choir.

hehehehe!

Sounds lovely though.
Can't wait till my birthday.

Lovely photo nickel :)

Did my worship review at DCC last night - thanks for all your suggestions. It was hard going, I have to say, there is resistance to the tiniest bit of change, eg the service booklets idea, oh it would all be too complicated, too much money, too much change, the old people won't like it, let's keep the tradition. This is service booklets ffs, not a full rock band But ho hum, gave it a shot, and some proposals were met with more enthusiasm than others (don't get me going more) Are all church councils hard work? I would love to see them reflecting the kingdom more...but I guess we are only human, and it's like any committee anywhere I guess. sigh.

oh dear. they sound like our church!

yes, all church councils are this hard work.
Lots of people talking random rubbish and never making decisions.
What proposals were successful?

Madhair - I'm not on our PCC (have mananged to avoid it because of childcare issues ). However I have heard from reliable sources that yes - it's very hard work with a core group opposing anything and everything.

I recently discovered part of the reason we have such a rubbish screen set up............is because some of the PCC didn't want to "touch the fabric of the church" (ie we couldn't put nice retractable screens on the walls as we'd have to make holes (teeny tiny screw holes ) in them).

for goodness sake - we don't even have some ancient fabulously arctiecture church - it's a 1940's/50's one after some little brat set fire to the old one and it burned down!

The someone (in the building trade) (not sure of the ins and outs of this as it was thrown out as it would mean to much change to the outside of the modern church bhiling ). had offered (I think something along these lines) to buy the old knackered hall and land off us. But rather than giving us the "money" per se they would build a hall that joins onto the outside of the church, with lovely entrance and we'd have had one fabulous "self contained" building with hall, church, meeting rooms, kitchen, storage etc. The bit of ground it was would have been on is just grasss - where there is a constant plea for people to "please put your name on the rota to cut the grass"

A lot of people were very excited about the proposal - as we would effectively get a brand spanking new church hall for free/very little. But unfortunately the "people with the say" turned it down. ARGHH

but...............it's not happening - the dreadful condition current church hall has been on the PCC discussion list for nearly 20yrs now as needing replacing/DRASTICALLY improving (ie gutting and totally rebuilding) - it's an absolute eyesore (I live nearly opposite it) and barely passes the H&S regulations. However (the following bits are not MY point of view - but the reasons stated)

1. We can't afford to raise that sort of money (I bet if they'd started 20yrs ago they'd have got it done by now.....not to mention when we do finally get our hall sorted out it was will be a community hall - and I'm sure that man of the groups that use the hall would be quite happy to take part in fund raising for it too

1. Every idea that is put forward is right in some way or another (usually aesthetic pathetic reasons).

and B - sounds about right!
I think you'd be better to knock it down.
Maybe you could secretly get the council to condemn it?

I like your buildre's idea: shame it got mooted.

It's always a good plan to attach the church hall to the church - it means that it makes it a much more flexible building - better to serve the community.

Never mind, maybe one day. :(

The issue with just making some tiny screwholes is that in a CoE church you need a "faculty" to make them. It is illegal to alter the church fabric without official planning permission from the Diocesan Advisory Committee, which has to be applied for (and paid for). In a less than moneyed church, this can be quite costly. I used to worship at a modern but cronky church (plus cronky attached hall) and you still had to run everything past the DAC, which usually takes few months into the bargain (and planning notices have to be publicly fixed so anyone who wants to object, can do so - obviously they won't, I wouldn't think, with screw-holes and a nice new screen, but it's still a legal requirement).

Churches attached to halls can be really good for community spaces and integrating the two; on the other hand, there can be clashes about noise overlap, car-parking, access to toilets during other events. I'm not sure which is preferable - really it depends on the individual church's circumstances.

do you really Dan ? I never heard that, and I'm sure we've made holes in walls without having to pay for it/get permission before.
oops....

Oh Baroque, I feel your pain. You're totally right, there are always a core 'power group' who want things the way they want it and always have done Thank You Very Much.

Proposals that got through were having grape juice as well as wine for children / people who don't drink - and doing some sermon series to build discipleship, meaning - gasp! - departing from the lectionary at times.

Not a chance with screens though. Must be something about screens that riles every PCC in the country

Still, bit by bit. Only trying to make things more friendly/welcoming/vibrant/all that stuff.

well - the parents/inspectors chat went really well. And had DS2's parents evening at 4.

Saw the headteacher on my way out and he said

"obviously I can't say antying - but today went very well" (with a thumbs up) - so I think they've going to get a good sectin 48 report.

And DS2.............what can I say - if I hadn't given birth to him I'd honestly not believe he was mine

nd actully dandy that's not strictly true - the DAC website itself says

"When do I need a faculty?
A: A faculty, that is a licence authorising the work, is required for ALL repairs, alterations or extension of a church building or changes to its contents or churchyard. The only exceptions to this rule are minor works specified by each individual diocese. A faculty is a legal requirement and there are significant powers to deal with any unauthorised changes which may be reversed or demolished."

So we were able to have 2 new plug sockets fitted without having to go through the entire process as it's allowed under our diocese rules.

We already had provisional permission to have the old hall knocked down, and anew one built in its place (we used to have an architect worshiped with us and he made the plans for free) - everything was in place - we just needed proper planning permission from the council (wouldn't have been hard to get - I ca't imagine a single resident round here complaining about knocking the old one dowd and building a prettier one).........but it had the stoppers put on by "being too expensive"

(and since then we've spent literally £1000's repairing and doing maintained on the current hall..........we may as well put a pile of cash in the church yard and burn it tbh )

I have to say that the CoE is particularly bad for committee time wasting. When we were part of a CoE church DH spent soooo many evenings discussing things and nothing was ever done . I have to report though that the irritations of church life aren't much different over here! Something to do with being imperfect humans I think...

On a different note we finished reading the Lion, Witch and Wardrobe to the DCs this evening. They've enjoyed it although it was probably a bit over DSs head (he's only just 4). I'll be spending all day tomorrow answering questions as he processes it

blimey! what's a section 11?
(i'm on the PCC, so i'm sure i should know, but the amount of jargon they throw around without explaining what they're going on about is frightening. No wonder noone ever wants to join!)

Milly - that realy is heavy going for a 4yo! poor boy!

A section 11 meeting is for a parish to finalise a parish profile, and select parish representatives to pick the next priest. The parish profile has caused more than a few arguments , but its done

He liked it nickel! Although it was more aimed at 6yo DD1 and not at him - more that it's hard to read to her without him listening (they share a room). DD2 (1yo) listened too but she can't talk so no questions from her .

ah! yes, been there, done that!
bloody things.

we had to make a parish profile when we got our crap vicar - basically, they read the parish profile and then gave us a vicar whose primary aim was to change it all.
our latest parish profile was when we got rid of him. Then they told us we couldn't have a new one because we're crap.

I'm sure he did - at that age, i'm sure it's more the way you tell the story than the story itself!

I also started reading them The Secret Garden but then realised they were having an overdose in stories about children who's parents were missing/dead! We have a slightly limited stock of books so they don't always get the most age appropriate ones because I get bored of reading the same things over and over

Aaaagh Mary sounds about as hard work as our DCC t'other night. Yes CofE committees seem a law unto themselves, at times...

milly I first read The Lion etc to dd at about 6 and she loved it then. She reads them all herself now and still loves them (10)

Had a hard going governors meeting yesterday too, and another one tomorrow, must be the week for it. ugh.

Off to do something on PD, I have an Idea

The Secret Garden is lovely.
I prefer it an abridged format though, because there's an awful lot of repetition in the middle.
"she's out in the garden watching birds, she's eating loads, she's getting fatter and more ruddy" over and over again!

an Idea?
ooohhhhh....

did i kill the thread?

Probably...