The anti woo thread.

[LetThereBeRock]

Can all those who don't believe in homeopathy,ghosts,talking to the dead,reading minds etc,please check in here?

There must be a few of us.

I feel as though I've logged onto allthingswoo.com rather than Mumsnet.com at the moment,and I'm not referring to this particuarly forum,but chat and AIBU?.

And if anyone says anything about how we should be openminded,I'm afraid I'll have to beat you to death with a a stick,one cut from an ash tree by the light of the first Summer moon of course.

LOL @ retox.

An ex colleague - hard nosed journalist- is now a Shaman called Running Wolf or something. She can identify your 'power animal,' and teach you some power songs during her drumming workshop.

I sort of admire her

does shamanism pay better than journalism?

Trillian and Grimma, I have to say I think a lot of what you say touches on scaremogering without looking at the realities of what is happening.

People using alternative therapies have very often exhausted convetional approaches. That's why they are giving it a go. Or they're very often attending with issues that are certainly not life threatening in any way that's why the placebo effect is presumably quite successful. A general feeling of malaise responds quite well to a bit of attention. Then there are the worried well. In many cases I suspect they're "heartsink" patients or people who benefit from not going the doctor at all because there isn't really anything wrong with them, and they'll just clog up the surgery and could be prescribed something completely unnecessary.

I think you put yourself in rather a bind somewhat. Demanding greater regulation is a requirement for the state to give credibility to alternative therapies: I mean, what kind of regulation are you going to give a reflexologist? Must join a recognised reflexology federation and have proper training? what difference does that make if it's all nonsense in the first place?
Look at the greatest regulated alternative therapy outlet, the homeopathic hospital. Extrememly unpopular with you.

The one thing I would say would be useful could be for practitioners to be required to have first aid training and a sort of NHS direct approach -- any of these symptoms and customers must be advised to see a doctor. But then, we all know that if everybody attending with a general feeling of tiredness was assumed to have thyroid issues the NHS would be overwhelmed.

Europe deals with these things rather well. You can see an MD who doubles up as a nutritionist and/or homeopath, whatever. They're all covered by your insurance. But you know the "homeopath" will recognise if you've got something really wrong with you.

But that wouldn't be popular with you either, you'd see it as a waste of money. So short of a complete ban, or the current "free" system, you will find yourselves in self contradition whichever route you choose.

Woo bingo

Magic bedlinen!
Magic water!
Magic air!

A magnetised bed? Is that a good thing? Surely you'd never be able to get up?

^Sorry. That was in response to Boffin's link...

detox is a waste of time (unless you are on a class A or an alcoholic). The body has it's own detoxification plant - it's called.... the liver !!

by the way magnet therapy for depression has some credibility

What surprises me about 'alternative health' centres is that they often have such a long list of 'therapies', e.g. acupuncture, homeopathy, naturopathy, reflexology, ayurveda, reiki, chinese medicine, etc. etc. To my mind this seems a bit of a warning sign - obviously they can't all be right, so surely such centres are kind of saying 'take your pick... one of them might work, and just ignore the rest'.

What bugs me is that I'm a counsellor and quite often counselling is one of the therapies on offer, and I worry this reduces counselling to being as equally woo as ear candles.

by the way magnet therapy for depression has some credibility

I wouldn't be too suprised if there was some genuinely brain-affecting TMS therapy possible but there does seem to be a lot of blatantly woo 'magnet therapy' out there too.

And then of course there's the 'God helmet' ... research towards the physiological basis of woo brain states maybe?

Appletrees, I think you and I both know that there is a world of difference between the definitely woo (magnetic beds, wristbands, inserts for knickers etc), and transcranial magnetic stimulation, which i believe you are referring to. The latter seems to have proved stronger than placebo in a controlled double-blind trial. The former is a simple ferrous magnet, the latter is a much much stronger electro-magnet.

Am very impressed however, with your persistence on this thread, trying to pick holes in whatever woo people mention. Kudos, you have put in some serious hours!

Grimma, x-post!

If you mean transcranial magnet therapy there have been a few reports of success targeting the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, although it hasn't been researched anywhere close to enough to acheive scientific credibility as yet.

That has absolutely nothing to do with magnet beds or any kind of woo claims. Thats a woo tactic though, trying attach something silly to something sensible when there is no link.

And what about...

Bioresonance therapy - to restore an individual's harmonious and balanced cell oscillation using electromagnetic currents... small electrodes are placed on the surface of the skin. These are harmless and designed to clear out energy blockages, through the electrical current transmitted through them...It also looks for any accumulation of dangerous toxins in the connective tissue between cells, which can impede them from doing their job correctly.

Sign me up - it's got magnets AND detoxing.

Sign me up - it's got magnets AND detoxing.

not unless its in some way 'quantum' too.

Yes it does look very technical from what I've seen and nothing to do with anything you might buy in Homebase

Lullie I think alternative therapies are useful and have some value, even if it's not the substantive value they claim.

A bit like joining a choir. I think choir membership should be available on prescription!

A bit like joining a choir. I think choir membership should be available on prescription!

and as I mentioned somewhere recently, dogs should be prescribed too.

Yes absolutely. Requiring stiff walks and fresh air.

Actually this would be my beef with alternative therapies. Not that they take people away from medication but that they take people away from an apple a day, good long walk and a decent night's sleep.

All the reichi in the world can't do better than that.

Petting a dog has been observed to have beneficial effects on cortisol and oxytocin levels in both the human and the dog here

Tricki-woo therapy

I was quite sick for a bit; the best 'therapy' I had (apart form real medicine which did literally save my life) was stargazing...
Once recovering, I took holiday in Bali. On a warm night, I lay wrapped in a blanket on a blow up bed bobbing about in a swimming pool with a cool sea breeze... I watched the stars as an ipod piped tinkly music into my ears. "What is it meant to do I asked the chap?" "Haha he said. It is relaxing and, um, nice."

And it was nice, and relaxing. No woo-y claims and did me the world of good as I enjoyed it. You see, no one here is saying that people (whether sick, in pain, lonely, sad or none of the above) don't get ANY benefits from doing nice relaxy things, things that feel good. The objection is when lies and false claims are made, the vulnerable are exploited etc etc. It is a HUGE and very vivid difference IMHO.

How have I missed this?

I believe in gin and certainly not in homeopathic doses.

How have I missed this?

er well...

I believe in gin and certainly not in homeopathic doses.

I hope you've not answered your own question!

Grimma, I was probably having an out-of-body experience in space or something.

So long as it wasn't just an off your face one.