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Original poster

The anti woo thread.

538 replies

LetThereBeRock · 04/02/2011 16:22

Can all those who don't believe in homeopathy,ghosts,talking to the dead,reading minds etc,please check in here?

There must be a few of us.

I feel as though I've logged onto allthingswoo.com rather than Mumsnet.com at the moment,and I'm not referring to this particuarly forum,but chat and AIBU?.

And if anyone says anything about how we should be openminded,I'm afraid I'll have to beat you to death with a a stick,one cut from an ash tree by the light of the first Summer moon of course.

OP posts:

Undutchable · 06/02/2011 12:49

I'm confused too.

Appletrees · 06/02/2011 12:54

oh my God norman --you are on the point of asking me to respect your beliefs

how ironic

Cote: I'm questioning the supercilious, smirking, insulting derogatory attitude, that's all. I hate that attitude. It's childish and it stinks. It's also tainted with ignorance. At the same time there's a touch of credulity about modern conventional which is rather dreary.

I agree with most here about the substantive value of alterative therapies, but there is obviously a role for them somehow. They obviously work for some people. Let them be. Or research how the benefit can be maximised and the costs minimised.

Normantebbit · 06/02/2011 12:55

I think the difficulty comes when homeopathic practitioners try to explain how it might work with dubious 'science' when it could very well be the placebo effect.

CoteDAzur · 06/02/2011 12:56

You can't question an attitude, though.

You don't like an attitude, fine. That is your prerogative.

Are you questioning anything anyone said here? What seems to be incorrect?

CoteDAzur · 06/02/2011 12:58

Any benefits from homeopathy are due to placebo effect. Study after study after study has shown that homeopathy gives no better results than placebo. In fact, there is a million dollar reward outstanding for whomever proves that homeopathy works better than placebo. Nobody has yet claimed it.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 06/02/2011 12:59

Cote - I believe there have been studies in which people have been given sugar pills which look like medicine, and told they are only getting sugar pills, but they have still improved more than the control group given nothing at all.

so it is in fact true that you don't even have to believe for the placebo effect to work.

BuzzLightBeer · 06/02/2011 13:00

I'm hurt. No wait, I'm right, so I'm fine.

Appletrees · 06/02/2011 13:00

I used the word question because you did.

No, I don't like it and I'm calling them on it. I think it's pathetic.

And I'm doing that because I think the value of alternative therapies should be recognised.

But that, of course, would make me an irrational, demented woo-ista whose brains have fallen out.

Even though I understand that their substantive value is probably zero.

I don't think I need more than that as a permission slip Cote.

PacificDogwood · 06/02/2011 13:01

... and red pills work best! Fact.

Normantebbit · 06/02/2011 13:01

I'm not asking you to do that, just that this is a thread where we can talk about this stuff without upsetting people. I don't why you are so angry.

Anyway, say my deceased friend's mum went to a medium and that medium claimed to be' talking to my deceased friend and her mum was able to say goodbye, would ghat be ethical?

Talking to dead people is clearly rubbish, bit if my friend's mum feels better (placebo effect) that's ok?

Appletrees · 06/02/2011 13:02

seth read the thread that's been dealt with

Buzz you aren't right, I think we dealt with that one too

CoteDAzur · 06/02/2011 13:03

seth - Which studies? Provide links so we can read and then talk about them.

CoteDAzur · 06/02/2011 13:04

What "permission slip"? I don't get you at all

Are you saying that woo therapies help a bit because of placebo effect so that little benefit should be recognized? I don't think anyone here is arguing against that.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 06/02/2011 13:10

I think it was in something I read by Ben Goldacre Cote but I don't have time to look for links, am looking after 3 small dcs right now so can't engage at that level.

haven't read all posts on the thread, gave up on Appletrees' mindless offensiveness after she informed us that only MrsDV has the right to be angry about woo.

going out soon anyway, see you later

Appletrees · 06/02/2011 13:10

cote -- trillian did a link on page one or two

I thought you were implying that I shouldn't be here arguing ..

"Are you saying that woo therapies help a bit because of placebo effect so that little benefit should be recognized? I don't think anyone here is arguing against that."

I don't call them woo, it's too derogatory. Actually yes, the general view here is that if they're worthless and laughable.

Appletrees · 06/02/2011 13:11

delete random "if" there

Appletrees · 06/02/2011 13:11

yes mindless offensiveness only allowed in one direction on this thread

Undutchable · 06/02/2011 13:12

Yes. That's the point of the thread. The clue was in the title and OP.

BuzzLightBeer · 06/02/2011 13:13

the value of alternative therapies is recognised. They sometime have a placebo effect which can be positive for some patients. It can be very very dangerous for other people. The actual effect value of most alternative therapies is ZERO.

What else exactly do you want to be acknowledged?

Undutchable · 06/02/2011 13:18

Rofl just noticed the juxtaposition of my last post and Appletrees'.

GrimmaTheNome · 06/02/2011 13:20

'Alternative' therapies always carry a risk of danger - simply that of the patient using an alternative to the real medicine that could actually cure them.

Any unproved therapy which hasn't been proved above the level of placebo and the benefit of a nice chat with someone interested should always be complementary.

CoteDAzur · 06/02/2011 13:34

If that study is correct, than it could mean any of (1) some test subjects thought it would do some good anyway (2) there was something in those pills - whether the water they were prepared with or the particular type of sugar inside - that actually helped with IBS or something else entirely different.

What this study does not show is that if you dilute a poison to the effect of one drop in the Atlantic Ocean, a spoonful of the said ocean will be beneficial to you. That is, it is not proof that homeopathy works.

Maybe I am being a bit thick today, but I don't quite understand how that study is supposed to be significant. We are right, woo pseudoscience like homeopathy does nothing. And nobody is denying that the mind is a powerful thing and it does have power over the body.

Appletrees · 06/02/2011 13:35

what's the point

don't read or don't understand, one or the other

buzz, you were the one claiming placebo is well understood.. can't take you seriously after that

CoteDAzur · 06/02/2011 13:35

I wasn't implying that you "shouldn't be arguing" but only saying that I'm not sure I understand what you are arguing for or against.

Appletrees · 06/02/2011 13:39

Cote I don't understand who you are arguing with.

Is it me? Is it anyone?

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