Religion Chat thread number 1

[nickelbabyjesus]

I wanted to put some random thoughts and stuff regarding church, without it having to be a debate or a specific topic (and not prayers, either)

It's basically, a "what happened at church (or in my musical/spiritual life) this week" thread.
Please join me!

I'll start:

We had Midnight Mass (on Christmas Eve, would you believe!), and it was half past 11, everyone was sitting and ready for the service to start - I waved the organist to give me my notes: he was just about to plat them when:
" TAXI FOR suchandsuch " came blaring out of our speaker system.
There's a Wetherspoon's over the road and looks like the DJ's mike was on the same frequency as our radio mikes.
So, all the congregation started giggling and we had to wait 5 minutes until everyone was calm and collected enough to carry on.

Thankyou.

Baroque, hope you get better sleep tonight - it's crap being sleep deprived.

That's lovely nickel. :)

it's an anthem for Evensong we do sometimes.
The evening hymn of King Charles (i think....)

It's very lovely until you have to sing top Fs and Gs in a p voice.

MHD - oh dear, hope you are feeling better soon, I will pray for you.

Baroque - don't let the barsteward grind you down. Hope you get a better sleep tonight. The Pizza Praise party sounds fab, it would be great if we could do something along those lines.

Hope you all had a better night.

One idea that our home church (ie in England not here in Moldova) did as outreach was an art competition. It took a lot of organising (and we had a team of interns at the time to do it) but it worked really well. Basically they asked pupils at secondary schools (I can't remember which ages) to produce a piece of artwork based on a bible story. The one I can remember was the Prodigal Son but they did it for several years so must have done others as well. They went in and did an assembly on the theme and introduced the competition, and I think gave a pack of ideas to the schools. There was then an exibition at the church of all the work where parents could come as well, and which was staffed by church members, and a presentation for the winners with the Mayor (or someone - bit sketchy on some details - sorry!). It was great though, because it got the kids to really engage with the passage, got the gospel into schools not normally open to it, and when the kids came with their parents to the exhibition they went round explaining what they'd done and basically interpreting the passage.

We did it for a few years and it got very big and popular but I think they had last year off.

It sounds like your churches are all doing quite a lot anyway.

Well I crashed on the sofa around 10 (well took me about 1/2hr to drop off despite being knackered ) slept well until 4am when DS3 came to join me.........

Wouldn't usually be a problem - except I slept on the small sofa last night and it's really not big enough for 2.....

Anyhow, feeling better this morning. Though just before I went to sleep I realised I'd missed (genuinely) a text from exH at 4pm saying "call me"..........by the time I saw it I was nearly asleep and thought no way, if he's desperate to talk to me (obviously not an emergency as I have the DS's here ) he can either ask more nicely than that, or ring me himself.

Am taking my mobile off silent today, now I've had some sleep and am more "composed".

Really want to get on with planning my Easter project around the play.......but need to pay some bills, do some housework and want to try and finish my holiday DVD before I get on with that.

That art competition sounds fabulous!

I didn't realise you were in Moldovia.........that explain my YouTube hits from there . I was thinking "wow that's really random - Moldovia, alongside Australi, UK, US etc" hehe - now I know

here's a slightly random question for you CoE lot.

I was baptised and confirmed/received into membership of the Methodist church in 1992 (when I was a wee bairn - well about 13 lol). Obviously I'm now CoE, and my children have all been baptised in the CoE.

As I said I was only 13 when I was confirmed, but although I attended church for most of the years in between then and now it's only been in recent years I've really been a Christian iykwim??

Obviously I can't be baptised or confirmed again (as the CoE recognises both my baptism and confirmation as being "legit" for want of a better word) - but (yes I know I could ask my vicar but I'm a bit about it) is there any sort of service in the CoE in which someone confirmed in another denom, can sort of reaffirm their commitment (yes I know we say the creed on a weekly basis) and become a "member" of the CoE??

I'm not sure that makes sense???

there isn't an official service, but i bet the priest could give you a blessing service.

I wouldn't worry about it - you are a legit member of the church - you attend, and i assume you take communion.
The CofE only recognises the baptism and confirmation that you are fulyl committed to being a christian.
TBH, i bet your vicar would be a bit at you wanting to do it.

In God's eyes, you're committed, and that's all that matters. :)

having said that i've just found this on the CofE site, which appears to combine baptism and affirmation of faith - would that fit what you want?

MHD - you are much braver than me. I had a look at the other thread and thought about entering into the fray and then chickened out. I think the OP sounds as though she is very angry. She says she has had bad experiences in the past and may be justifiably angry. I don't think her posts are meant to be personal though, I just think she is hitting out at anyone she thinks is representing Christianity and at the moment that is you. I'm quite sure if I posted I'd be her next target! I can kinda see where she is coming from though. I had a bad experience with a church some years ago where I ended up feeling judged and rejected and it did leave me feeling bruised for quite a long time. I was possibly angry and lashing out at folk at that time too. HOpe you are feeling better today.

Baroque - hope your ex starts to see sense soon.

Baroque - another option is the Easter Vigil (on Holy Saturday) if your church does one - as everyone re-confirms their faith as part of that service & gets sprinkled with water from the font (priest enjoys that bit ) 'Tis one of my favourite services of the year, when you turn all the lights out in church & re-enter from outside by candlelight :) After a long absence I took my first Holy Communion again at that service as I wanted to come back into the fold "properly" & that is what the priest sugested I do. As nickel says though, you are "legit" regardless :) Glad you managed some sleep last night, the world is always less stressful when you have had sleep

I dont' know - can't quite explain it. ach never mind - just my mind going on overload again

oh crumbs - just looked for the thread. I'm staying well out of that one. Although I thought long ago on the OP's post that her OH has been really quite oppressive (abusive?)- so I don't blame her really. Lots of reference ot the first part of "submit to your husbands" - but not much on the next bit of "loving your wife as God loves the church".......

can someone give me a link to the thread please?
I don't want to be a gossip-monger, but i'd like to see what happened.

'okay, i found it - didn't get past page 1, though, cos it was pretty heavy-going.

why can't some women not see the difference between chauvanists (and sexists) and God/Christianity?
Why is it always "you can't be a christian if you believe that women are equal" -that was born out of the patriarchal society, not out of religion or faith.
She wants to give up God completely because her husband is a twat?

Baroque, I agree with the others that you are a 'legit member' but I also understand the desire to recommit.

I was confirmed in the C of E at 25 and I had to be baptised the week before. The vicar was a bit funny about it. I don't think he had done many adult baptisms. I think he thought there was something peculiar about someone who hadn't been baptised as a child. (My parents were Baptists but had stopped attending church as well).

I agree with the poster who said that the Easter services can be seen as a corporate renewal of baptismal promises.

I also agree with the poster who linked to services of affirmation.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, but remember God is bigger than any one denomination. It is what is in your heart that counts.

Thanks Jaffa. I'm staying out of it now. It wasn't the OP who was attacking me, it was someone else seemingly v bitter about the church, and I also see her point but was trying to give some balance. Maybe I got it wrong, but to be accused of propaganda-mongering and reeling off a script was somewhat heavy. I don't think I said anything like that. But I'm not going to contribute further as they have an idea of what I am saying which is not it at all, so no further point. I wanted to support Kay while giving chance to see it wasn't always like that. Never mind. I feel a bit oppressed about it all actually but I think that is just the week I am having.

Baroque, I also agree that you are utterly legit in God's sight which is what matters, but there are services of re-affirmation which can be lovely if that is what you feel you want. My dad used to do re-affirmation of baptism vows with water, so used the pool and everything, not saying the baptism vows but just re-affirming them, people who did it found it amazing i think. So do what feels right for you :)

Just been talking to the Churchwarden - we've got to move Music Sunday to the 3rd July.
Not a problem, though!

It's cos we've got a Baptism on the 26th, and it can't be moved (family coming from abroad)
So, I think we'll be as busy as Christmas!
Pentecost, then Trinity Sunday, then Baptism, then Music Sunday!
all one week after the other!

Baroque Does 'Reception' fit the bill for what you want? Possibly not, since you've been part of the CofE for a long time already, and it seems to be designed for people just "moving" from other denominations to Anglicanism...(???).

I don't know anything about this (and hadn't heard of it before) but I remembered reading something about it on the website of the church we went to in the US. I'm C&P-ing it below, but have taken out the name of the church. (It's obviously aimed at an American audience, but it talks about "the Anglican tradition", so I am guessing it's the same here.)

"The rite of Confirmation is for individuals who wish to publicly affirm their mature Christian commitment. Reception is a public acknowledgment and welcome of a Christian person who has chosen to belong to the Anglican tradition of the Christian Church. These rites are administered by the Bishop.

People who wish to join the Episcopal Church will often ask, ?Should I be confirmed or received?? While such a question is best answered in conversation with Cathedral clergy, a general answer would be: If you have been confirmed in the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, or Lutheran traditions, it is likely that you would be received. If you have never made an adult profession of faith, it is likely that you would be considering Confirmation.

At the XXX, the most significant liturgy for Confirmations and Receptions is our Easter Vigil, celebrated the night before Easter Sunday. Our Cathecumenal Course focuses upon preparing for this yearly liturgy, as a context for Christian formation. The other service where Confirmations and Receptions takes place is during the annual visit of the Bishop to the Cathedral congregation.

If you are interested in Confirmation or Reception, please contact the Dean of the Cathedral."

Oh, right... there's the Easter Saturday thing again. So that makes sense.

Another nice thing we did over there (sorry for the rose-tinted specs, but I did have a really good experience there) was a renewal of baptism as part of the baptism service. So after the baptism of the baby, everyone who'd been baptised themselves went to the font and touched the water or crossed themselves with it as a renewal of their own baptism.

I've been to confirmation services where folk have been "received into the communion of the C of E" - not just by participating in the corporate "renewal of baptism vows" that occasionally happens in churches (usually around either the Bapt of Christ in January or at Pentecost). When you are "received" you are at a special service, along with confirmation candidates, and you go up to the bishop and he still says a prayer for you, and it can be a very special thing. I would ask your vicar about the possibility of being included in this way in the next confirmation service that is held local to you (usually around Easter, but depending on how busy the bishop is: our nearest service is always on Ascension Day).

Baroque - I'd been thinking about that too - I was christened and confirmed at 13 (most in the parish were 11 or 12) and became a christian later. I do sometimes feel a bit sad when I see people being confirmed as adults that the service has so much meaning for them and it didn't for me at the time - I know I am still a full member of the church though. In some ways by joining in the words being said I reconfirm my commitment.

I do find this affirmation of confirmation thing interesting.
(i was going to put odd, but i don't want you to think i think it's a bad thing)
my story is that I was always a churchy girl, I was baptised as a baby, went to church from 4.
was confirmed at 12 (was done by Duncan, Bishop of Johannesburg)
didn't go to church from 16-18 (got annoyed at the whole thing - fed up with being bullied for years for being a christian, and fed up with all the christians i met being very different from me)
went back to church at uni - never enjoyed it, cos it was happy-clappy.
spent years in the wilderness looking for a church that was geographically near me and spiritually/traditionally close to me.
gave up and just joined a choir at my friend's church . That wasn't so brill, cos it was modern and all-embracing, but i felt more a part of it than i had since i was a child- that choir became my welcome back to formal worship.
moved down here - first thing i did was find a traditional church choir (very lucky in that respect)

I never felt like i wasn't a christian, or that i wasn't affirmed - I felt that the churches were letting me down, that i needed to be part of something that i grew up with - that i needed that tradition in order to be close to God.
still feel like that - still feel like God has called me to uphold that tradition for Him.

i think it's interesting newlark that you say you became a christian later than you were confirmed - did you feel like you were just doing what was expected of you and didn't believe till later?

I also grew up "in the church" - my mum was a preacher in the Methodist church, we went to various different churches when I was very young, then went Methodist again (when my mum became a local preacher) and then left the Methodist church for (mostly) the CoE - but kind of "shopped around" again too. I think the confirmation then (in the Methodist) church was kind of natural progression of things that "were done" - but it didn't really hold any major signifance to me iykwim?

I did lots of church hopping while at school in Edinburgh. Though the last 2 years up there were spent in the Episcopal church. Though I "believed" I wasn't really a Christian I don't think. Went to Zim and stopped going to church at all (except for school chapel services on a Sunday night which were compulsory for all boarders - and I played for that service)

Started going to church regularly again when I met exH - a variety, and then CoE when we came to the UK. But feel I've kind of been "drifting" up until the last couple of years.

I think that, for many people, confirmation probably tends to happen too early for it to be really meaningful as we progress into adult life.

In my own case, I don't think I was confirmed 'under false pretences'. I mean, I knew what I was doing and believed genuinely in what I was claiming to believe in. I didn't do it for 'peer pressure' reasons, because most of my peers didn't go to church. And yet, I think that the way in which you believe (not necessarily what you believe) at 12 or 13 is very different from the way in which you believe at 25 or 45.

This may sound odd [I don't mind if you think it does] but in all my 25 or so years 'in the wilderness', when I was genuinely agnostic (insofar as I had questions around faith which I just couldn't find answers to), I rarely went to church, but when I did, I would always take communion if given the chance to do so. I did sort of feel that maybe it was 'wrong' to take communion given all my doubts and the fact that I attended church so rarely, and yet I felt strongly drawn to do it. I think now that this is because I needed to realise that faith was not going to come from a blinding flash of inspiration that answered all my questions - that faith doesn't even necessarily make the questions go away - but that it was there all the time, in what the bread and wine represented.

Umm... I seem to have lost my thread... I think what I was trying to say was that, if I had felt that there was a 'test' that you had to pass in order to be able to be a (communicant) member of the church, then I wouldn't have felt that I passed it. But if I had not felt able to accept Christ through the bread and wine, then I might not have accepted Him more wholly into my life. Does that make any sense at all? I know it's a bit 'chicken and egg'.

I wonder if it works better in traditions where anyone who's baptised is allowed to take communion. Then there isn't a 'rush' to be confirmed in order to be a 'grown up' member of the church, and people could ask for confirmation at a point when they really wanted it. Or maybe it doesn't matter. I mean, as MHD (who understands all this much better than I do) said, you are 'legit' in God's eyes anyway, and surely whatever brings you to Him has got to be a good thing. (I think this was the conclusion of my thread ages ago about my dds 'accidentally' taking part in the re-baptism thing when they hadn't been baptised as babies... That surely God wouldn't 'mind', given that they had taken part reverently and not with any deliberate intention to deceive...).

Sorry for rambling!

that makes snse Baroque - almost like you want to knit it all together.

TUO - I totally understand where you're coming from - I find the same thing about taking bread and wine (apart from the coubt that it's the right thing) - I feel like just taking it confirms my faith.
but then i'm the girl that during the years I "rebelled" used to find herself singing the credd to herself without any prompting - almost in the same way you'd sing that song from the radio...

Baroque, I was formally received into the C of E, having been confirmed in the RCC when I was 11. This was a beautiful service and was very meaningful for me.

Example service here

I have actually considered attending the local Non-denom church on the Sunday evenings that I don't have evening services and asking for full immersion baptism......though if I had the money I have a secret desire to go to Yardennit.......on one of the Holy Land tour/pilgramages..........one day when the DS's are all grown up...........