brainwashed niece

[ladysoandso]

My 19 yo niece is staying with us for 3 nights a week whilst doing work experience. This is the first time we have even spent any time alone with her without her parents there. Her parents are born again christians.

It is starting to dawn on me that she has been brainwashed. She is no opinions of her own that dont relate to the bible. The subject of her religion comes up every meal time (by her). I actually try to avoid any talk because it makes me so uncomfortable to here her sad replies and hell and the devil. She is awkward and unsure of her arguments and it sounds to me like she has been coached to answer in a very casual way so as not to get into a difficult discussion. She even said to one question 'ummm now what was I supposed to reply?"

She has admitted that she hopes by talking to me I will 'pick up the bible'. I feel like she is trying to recruit me!

I know this is extreme but I think it boarders on child abuse.

Any opinions?

it is her religious beliefs. who is to say she hasn't chosen them herself? she is 19. not a child. an adult. she can choose what to believe. her views may be more extreme than you are used to and she may be very aware of people being prepared to challenge her so has prepared answers to help with that.

The way you describe it, yes, it sounds like she has been brainwashed, but I'm not sure there's much you can do unless you're prepared to spend hours and hours and days and days in discussion with her.

(I wouldn't be able to stop myself trying for discussion because I couldn't cope with small, sad replies about the devil.)

How about telling her you'll read a bit of the bible if she'll have a seious discussion about it with you. But make it a condition that she thinks through her replies and explains them properly, not just repeat what she's been told.

You may not convince her, but you might get her to think it through and decide what she really believes. But, she may actually believe the Bible. People do you know!

yes but if she has been taught that and nothing else then when has she had the chance to think for herself? She still lives at home with very strict parents. My only hope is that she goes to uni and starts mixing with people that challenge her beliefs and makes her think a bit more.

surely all children are brainwashed to a certain extent though? we all grow up believing what our parents or the people who raise us believe. we don't really make our own choices until we start making friendships and a life outside of home.

Unprune - that is usually my way of thinking too but I dont want to get into it because you cant get much more atheist than me! I dont want to scare her off coming to stay.

Amumscotland - thats a very interesting and sensible idea. I shall try that. Thanks. I think I shall let her pick a chapter/verse/passage whatever you call it and then we can have a discussion about it. Any suggestions for a juicy one? How about the one where jesus gets it on with the prostitute?

booyhoo - I have been at the dinner table when the mum has talked about going to hell and the devil. She has told me she is praying for me. I asked her not to talk like that in front of my kids who were about 5 and 7 at the time. So I think she has grown up with this awful fear of being bad and going to hell. What sort of way is that to bring your child up. It's all too horrible for me to imagine. The younger child wet the bed till she was 10 -and they couldnt work out why.

Booyhoo that's quite chilling. Children do learn how to behave to some extent from their parents, but it takes a special kind of bullying to make a human being who's unable to think for themselves or to disagree with his/her parents.

lady, while i agree with you that what the girl's mum believes is not pleasant. i don't think it means she is any more brainwashed than otehr children are just because what they believe is more palatable.

also the talk about hoping you will pick up the bible. if she has a very strong faith, she will of course find it hard to understand why you dont and she will truly believe that your life will be better for bringing God into it. when someone gets such immense joy from something of course tehy want to talk about it and of course they want others to benefit from it. i am not saying that what she belives is good but she does so for her it feels natural to talk about it and share it. i was brought up catholic and believed it all until i was a teenager. by your reckoning that means i was brainwashed too. i think all religion had different levels of 'brainwashing' tbh.

She may think that you are brainwashed for NOT believing. She is 19 and no longer a child so I don't really see how it can be child abuse. My parents were the same and never let up about church,Bible etc but when we all got older we made our own decisons. They have chilled right out now and are much more relaxed about it. I dont see what is wrong with a teenage girl wanting to read the bible or keep her faith - its a personal decision she has made. If she wanted to rebel she would!

I don't think its child abuse. However at 19 she doesn't have the life experience that could tell her what is right or what is wrong.

Humour her. There is a lot about faith which is good, but she needs some life experience.

She is an adult. All parents do it, vegetarians, atheists-in fact anyone with strong beliefs. Now that she is out and about on her own she will gain life experience and make up her own mind.
Parents think they have a lot of influence but they don't really-it is only if the DC lets them. They are free to accept or reject.

Thanks everyone - my only hope is what you have suggested might happen - that she finds her own way now she is out in the world.

booyhoo - you talk about the immense joy she gets from it but there is no joy about this girl at all. She has zero personality, no soh, no joie de vivre. I cant see how anything that makes someone so crushingly boring, judgemental and disdainful can possibly be joyous.

some people derive their pleasure from being miserable borebags. my dad is one of them.

Yes very true. Maybe she would be like that however she was brought up. Poor kid.

Her parents must be very pleased they have such a malleable child. I can see the younger one rebelling.

you never know. at 19 she is just entering her adulthood. she will most liekly leave her parent's home and experience teh world trhough her own eyes. her faith may stay jsut as strong or it may wane. eitehr way i think once she's had a few years away from home, you can be pretty sure, however she is, it's her own choice to be that way.

I don't see any problem with a girl having faith. I wouldnt mind if a ninteen year old talks about the Bible instead of her hair.
As long as she isnt in some kind of cult or dangerous sect(mainstream christianity believes in the trinity,most smaller cults don't) I would leave her to it.

The only problem I can forsee is that if her parents are really strict like mine were and she might turn against it at some point and experiment with more sinister stuff. (One of my brothers did with heroine and I also dabbled a bit back in the day although not to his extent) Another sister doesnt go to church now and the other sister married a jew and lives in Israel. Its only one brother who is actually a full time church goer now out of the 5 of us)
But then I know plenty of christian families who just continue to live with their faith and are very happy doing so. She may look happy to you but I dont think you can judge happiness on what she does or doesnt do in the real world.

bee - i think MY problem is with it all is that to me, a non believer, is that it is no different from a cult. I think children should be given a balanced view and given the basics for them to make their own mind up. She doesn't like jews, homosexuals, muslims - all the usual bollocks. I think it's evil if I'm honest.

I thought about it last night and one thing I am grateful for is that her parents think it's ok for her to stay with such heathens!

and you all say 'she's 19, an adult etc' but if she is still at home then when has she ever had a chance to break away and think for herself? Her week is taken up with church, bible studies, helping other church members with jobs like shopping etc. I think its lovely to do that - i do it for a neighbour but I'm not going to hell if I let her down one week. Its all so bloody extreme.

I shall come back to this in 4 years when she has been to uni and let you know if it made any difference.

lady i can totally understand your concern. i am atheist aswell and to me, most religions seem a bit strange. i do honestly think though that what you are seeing is just a slightly more extreme version of what is involved in all religions. there are some people who take their religion and the bible in very literal terms and there are those who interpret it to suit their own more liberal views. i honestly don't see that this is anything worse than those who take their religion very seriously. i don't think she is any more brainwashed (from what you say) than any other child that is brought up believing a certain thing because their parents told them so (the whole santa thing could be seen as a form of brainwashing). and yes while this girl is still at home with her parents she is most likely to still believe what she has been raised to but i doubt at 19 she has many more years at home. she will move out, move on and form friendships that question her faith. she will maybe start to question it too. and you know afetr a few years out in teh world, if she still is as strong in her faith then you have to accept that it is what she has chosen.

Not sure about brainwashed, she just sounds like she is a very intense person who takes it to certain extremes that most people of faith would be somewhat more relaxed about. Perhaps it is just the way she is? Maybe she is just naive and like Mary said lacks life experience. I wouldn't worry overly, she'll have more chances to experience life as she gets older. AMIS' suggestion of sitting down with her and asking if she will really discuss it is a good one.

She does sound like hard work, it's great that you care so much and want to help her. It is possible at that and any age to be completely immersed in your faith but doesn't generally make someone how you describe, with the lack of personality etc. Are her parents similar in personality?

I was very intense when I was that age. University made a HUGE difference to me.

She doesnt like Jews or muslims. I kind of understand she doesnt agree with homosexuality but if she says she doesnt like them I agree that is very narrowminded. She should know that christianity came out of Judaism if she reads her bible and its not for christins not to like these people but to not agree with their beliefs - theres a huge difference and if she is saying this maybe she is being misled.
Do you know what sort of church it is?

Agree with Madhair and MaryBs. I think she sounds quite awkward and hard work but many teenagers are. Her experience is limited, and I agree with you that her racial views and fear/dislike of homosexuality are unpleasant but I would say that there are many worse things a 19yr old could be doing than reading the Bible and praying you will come to Faith.

Certainly in my church, we are told that we have a duty to spread the Word. I think its the same in all pentecostal and Evangelist churches and is part of being a Christian. However, I am much older than your neice and like to feel I have the life experience to know when it is okay to talk about God, or 'plant a seed', and when to leave it!

Have patience

I have a cousin like this. I find it unbearable to be around her. She has been completely indoctrinated with the most extreme Evangelical Christian beliefs, and it just makes me so, so sad/mad.

When I see her, I tend to steer away from commenting on the Jesus stuff, because I don't want to offend her, but I definitely DO pick her up on anything I find offensive - to other faiths, to women, to homosexuals etc. It works both ways, and she is old enough to learn this lesson in life.

Your niece's dislike of other faiths and of homosexuals is disturbing, to me. I would definitely pick her up on that - and any other extreme/offensive views - but without making it an anti-Christian thing.