Church, music, and welling up with tears.

[Lexilicious]

Hi,

I started going to church again recently. I was brought up very regular church-going Episcopal in Scotland, was in the choir, the drama group, the summer retreat etc. I believe in God, appreciate the Gospels and the acts throughout the NT show a model to live by, conscious you've got to look at it through the lens of history and cultural norms of 1st c AD Judaea... not sure about heaven... all very standard CofE. I like hymns, and I love anthems like Gibbons, Parry and all that - used to sing in that sort of choir.

Local church is a modern building, modern rules. Has about 5/6 songs per service. Sermon (only been twice) doesn't have much depth. Nice people, and I feel it's important to belong to your parish. I don't like the music. I really get quite irritated at all the 'My Lord, My King' type of stuff. It's not how I see Jesus/God at all, precisely the opposite. It's so trite and (to me) meaningless. I quite liked the Mission Praise stuff that came in in the 80s - Make Me a Channel of Your Peace, for example - that has a concept to it, it's figurative, doesn't have you singing assertions you don't necessarily mean.

Anyway, what's my point. My point is that even though I really don't like this music, I can't get two lines into anything without welling up. I seem have a deep emotional response to the group speaking bits (Creed for example) and singing in church and it's getting embarrassing. I certainly couldn't do the thing at the end of the service where they dance a circuit around the church with percussion instruments to some jolly tune with about three lines repeated ad nauseam, I'd be in tears.

Is this weird? I sometimes think it's not a spiritual reaction at all, that maybe it's something medical to do with breathing control.

I'm not expecting a response to this really, I'm off to bed. It's quite nice to write down my thoughts though, and put them 'out there'.

Hmmm. I am stumped. I suppose there would be those you reckon you are in some sort of denial which the reaction is overruling.

Or maybe it's bringing back your youth?

Dunno!

I have all sorts of problems of my own with corporate worship but this isn't one of them!

Lexi, it's not surprising at all. Lots of the modern music is designed to evoke an 'emotional response'. This may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on who you are. If you feel that this is helps you in your spiritual journey, then great, for me, I would fine it annoying to have my emotions manipulated. Like you, I am very traditional in my musical likes, and although I really hate the modern music, I can find it affecting my emotions. But to me it's not a 'real' depth of feeling, more like crying at a film.

I agree Lily.

Lexi, I believe that for some people certain musical keys/combinations provoke an emotional response. A classic is 'Away in a Manger'; many teachers report getting one child every now and then who howls at it for no good reason and I heard of a music teacher who said it was down to the key in which it is written. Stands to reason that it's possible to identify these keys/notes/whatever (not musical, sorry) and use them to get a particular response.

Whenever I'm a bit hormonal this happens to me, too. I cried all the way through my first service with DD.

But I don't think you need to feel embarrassed. Just tell people this is the effect the music has on you (I shouldn't worry about the details of how/why), and they'll probably just admire you as all holy and spiritually attuned...

There was a thread elsewhere on here where someone had started going back to church, and felt similarly emotional. And I have to admit (as I did on there), when I started to go to church again after a period of years away, I couldn't get through a service without crying. I used to sit at the back, sneak out, have a good cry and sneak back in again hoping no-one had noticed.

I don't think its weird at all, or if it IS weird, I'm weird right there with you :o

Thanks everyone, wow, I really hadn't thought of it as manipulative.

I also cry at Away In A Manger - but I don't think I did as a child.

I did lots of music, in I assume all possible keys, when I was younger (piano to a really good standard, various orchestras as 1st cello, I can play church organ, and I have sung in big choirs and madrigal groups).

I think there is an element of the musical pitch plus the emotional feeling. I just think I should sit out the songs I don't really buy into, musically or lyrically. Trouble is, I love a good sing and sitting out those songs would possibly mean not taking part at my local church at all. Would it be wrong to get my 'fix' by going to St Albans Cathedral for evensong once a month or something?!?

I freuqently bite my lip all the way through churh services - can't run out or sob where I am.

I do find lots of the music - from Gabrielli through to Graham Kenderick very emotional, both the tunes and the words.

The only really big issue I have with my church is the music. Dh and I have both said on many occasions - the church doesn't preach "cheap grace" but we sure sing about it a lot!

And yes, a lot of more modern worship songs do play on the emotions that can be raised through keys/key changes etc. I rmember listening to a really interesting Radio4 thing once about why "Angels" by Robbie Williams was so popular - its due to the style in which it is written and the key changes/emotional buildup in the song. A bit like "Bridge Over Troubled Water" as well.

So I get sceptical when music (well apart for Mozarts Clarinet Concerto Adagio - I cried playing that in my Grade 7 exam for goodness sake!!!) makes me emotional, but I am very worried about being manipulated!

And going to cathedral for evensong - FAB! I now go to a pretty Happy Clappy Baptist church but I still sneak in a Cathedral evensong now and then!!

I don't think it is very nice or very wise to trash other churches' worship styles.

For everyone that says they don't like modern worship, there are probably 10 that reciprocate and don't like 'dreary old organ music'.

Horses for courses, but best to be respectful of fellow Christians and not let 'petty differences' get in the way. Satan just loves that.

I do feel you are being a bit over-sensitive here MmeRedWhiteandBlue. Disagreement between Christians is possible,and at times healthy. You shouldn't steamroller over all differences of opinion by invoking Satan's glee.
And FWIW I don't think anyone was "trashing" anything.

No-one trashed anything. It is true that the modern worship music does play on the emotions in a way that more traditional music doesn't necessarily, and the OP was asking why the music seemed to affect her, despite her disliking it.

I don't think it's necessarily manipulative in the sense that you are being made to feel something against your will. More a case of using the technical aspect of music to heighten your emotional response to it, and therefore get a more emotional experience from your worship. Not my bag, but fair play if it's yours.

I cry at Away in a Manger now, but only because I used to sing it to dd1 when she was a baby and wouldn't sleep. My mum used to sing it to me, too. FWIW I think if AIAM is sung in church those singing it have to be under 7. It;s a lullaby, not a Christmas carol.

spiritmum - I've not many basses and tenors that are under 7 to do the lovely harmony for it

This happened to me during the hymns when I took my MIL to church a couple of times in a row out to help her out. Haven't been to church for almost 20 years. The Rev made a point during his sermon on my second visit, that when we find ourselves tearing up it means that God is trying to tell us something on a deep level that we need to pay attention to.

I'm a borderline atheist. So, for me, the reason i was welling up was because singing used to be a major part of my life. And the physical release of opening your voice in song, coupled with being socially allowed to express with a community was overwhelming.
I imagine if you joined a community choir, you would have the same reaction. There are so few outlets today to be physically and emotionally honest.

I think it is because you have not been to church for a while and it will pass.

I like what you say very much,Sauce.

More good stuff to think about thank you all.

I don't at all intend to be nasty about the 'worship style' (Mme) my primary motivation is to be involved in a community church and neither the music nor the depth of the sermon will affect that.

If I wanted a weekly theology seminar and concert, I'd drive to St Albans. But that would be (ironically) rather shallow wouldn't it.

I find myself rather resenting (ZZZen) the idea it's "just because" of not having been to church for a while. In the 5 years since I've been non-weekly churchy, I've been to a formal service at Christmas, Easter and Remembrance every year, and a few other occasions like when I'm at my parents' house. But a boyfriend when I was 16yo once said "God is wherever you speak to him" and so I have never really counted my faith by church visits. In fact, the follow-on from 'when you get more used to church again, you won't be as affected by the songs', is a bit sad really, as if you stop looking for meaning and thinking about what you're singing.

I liked the songs a little more today, actually. Couple of Graham Kendricks. Or rather, I didn't object and didn't weep. And my small boy enjoyed rattling his maracas at the end.

I personally think it could be that gods holy spirit was gently touching you in the service / worship

will prepare however to be shot down in flames at my rationale

sorry to have offended you it wasn't my intention. I mean a process of opening up and it can lead to tears - that's my own experience.

I agree with you that the church is not a building but I found a difference in being with God alone, getting on with living my life and worshipping with other people. Or indeed even just talking about God with other people of a strong faith. A church is a community of believers. I think that makes a difference - where 3 people are gathered in my name etc. The strength of that communal experience may have made a difference in breaking down some barriers which you don't experience so much alone perhaps - underneath those barriers was some sadness/strong emotion which then came out.

Hindus and Buddhists (and others) who do a lot of chanting / mantras also believe that there is something about the vibrational energy of the music and the words that connects us with the divine.

Lexi - I'm going to suggest that you look for a more traditional church in your area.
Even though you think it's important to belong to your parish, you aren't getting the spiritual fulfilment you want/need, and you could end up resenting going to church and even stop going.

I'm speaking from the POV of someone who would also cry at having to sing Graham Kendrick every week (tried it in the past and didn't like it)
I followed my heart and found a church tha was right for me, and I wouldn't go back.
(and i joined a choir too)

the reason that there are so many different churches and types of services is that we are all different,and God wouldn't want you to hate going to church, or to feel like you don't belong (that's how you come across)
He wants you to be able to concentrate on worshipping Him, and you have to do that in the way that you find comfortable, otherwise you're not being true to yourself, which ultimately means you're not beign truthful to God's interpretation of you.

oh Graham Kenderick is a bit shit - but I hate this idea that all modern church music is Graham kenderick - it's not - there are some FABULOUS late 20th century and 21st century hymns around

Personally i'd cry if I didn't sing a combination of new and old each week there's only so many thee's, thou's and therefore's you can cope with before you start to wonder what on earth you're actually singing about

Actually what does amuse me is that some of the "old" stuff that many of our congregation like is actually newer than some of the "new" stuff we sing

I like Tim Dudley Smith's stuff - he's nice and modern!

It's not necessarily the music (although some of it drags a lot - especially when the verse/churus/same verse again/chorus/chorus/chorus/chorus/same verse again/new verse/chorus/chorus happens!), I think it's more the atmosphere that does it - Lexi mentioned the walking around the church with drums and stuff singing ad nauseum.
i think i would vomit at that.

sometimes we go to the happy clappy church when the normal music leader is away, as DH has to help them out by playing the piano, and I go along (i still haven't worked out why i go along!), and I always come away thinking "kill me now please kill me!" :(
I'm sure part of me wants to go along and be convinced that it's not as bad as all that really, but i always come away thinking it's worse.