Salaam Muslim ladies (and anyone else)who can give me hijaab advice

[unsuremuslimah]

Assalaamu alaikum,

Sorry about the name change but I don't want to risk being outed until I have made up my mind.

I've been a muslim for 8 years, hijaabi for 7+, married for 6 and a mum for nearly 3. My husband is my absolute soul mate and while we have taled about this he feels that it (rightly) needs to be my decision.

I'm thinking about not wearing my scarf anymore and could do with some non judgemental advice.

I love my scarf, I love that it makes me feel closer to Allah and reminds me every day that I have to strive to be the best person I can be.

I love the surprise when I help people in the street, say hello, smile, ask about the england score! and the opportunity to show them true islam.

but...

My children are getting to an age where they understand the insults and the 'difference' and I'm worried about not only their safety but also how I can raise them with a love of Allah when they see me abused because of it.

I worry about them having friends over when they are older and their relationships with their cousins as I am the only hijaabi in the family so family gatherings are quite uncomfortable - especially in the summer and I can't bear the thought of staying with my brother in law and his family or they with us.

I get fed up of being a spokesman for Islam on a daily basis, constantly having to defend my choices and the religion everytime some other nutter does something stupid and calls himself a muslim.

I wonder if the hijab is doing its job - it doesn't make us 'recognised and not annoyed' it doesn't allow us to be seen and valued for ourselves as a person when peoples prejudices are so great. I'm fed up of being spoken to like an idiot because of a piece of material and a large dose of ignorance and racism.

I am a muslim through and through and I don't want to hide - but I want to be able to decide wh0 I tell - the resentment I am feeling for my scarf - or rather the effect my scarf has on the british public - is making me fear for my faith. It is part of a wider issue for me I guess.

I don't feel represented by the 'self styled leaders' and I find it hard to identify with the point of view of male scholars who do not live in my world. What happened to progressive islamic scholarship? where are the Alimah (female scholars)? What happened to the science of interpreting the Quran - did it just stop?

Any of us reading a text with interpret it differently (look at AIBU!) we cannot help but bring our own prejudices. I'm not saying reject the hadith, I'm not saying make the Quran fit modern times - but when did Islam stop moving forward instead of continuing to look at the interpretations as our knowledge increases and our prejudices change.

I've asked Imams - they say pray for an answer, what do I do when istikhara leaves me with a deep feeling of removing my scarf. I've posted similar questions to sunnipath, islamonline etc but my questions never get answered (if I ask easier questions I get an answer in a few weeks).

It feels good to get that out in the open! I'm not sure mumsnet is the best place to do it but all the islamic forums won't let you name change and require numerous posts from a new user to be allowed to start a topic - a sign of the times as they spammed with abuse otherwise

feeling very and and

Hi there - well I've got no useful advice at all as I'm an agnostic aetheist-type person, but I just wanted to say what a thoughtful post yours is and I hope you get some helpful posts soon!

I love the positives you've mentioned and think it's that one of the negatives is around your children hearing and understanding insults - actually it's as well because of course you and your children shouldn't have to tolerate any kind of insults/abuse. Do you think if this was the case then you wouldn't be wondering about whether to stop wearing it?

Sorry - as I said, bit of a useless posting but just wanted to say Hi and hope you come to some kind of resolution soon that you're OK with - will keep watching this thread.

bumping for you!

WS
I am not sure that I can give you answers, but will try to support you,

Whereabouts in the country are you? Would moving to a more 'multicultuarl' or with a largere muslim community make it less of an issue wrt to comments/staring?

We are making a big and dramatic move this summer before dd starts primary school to the outskirts of London. I havent had any trouble with my hijab here but have found that dd is a bit 'different' ot 'other' due to our faith so we will be moving to somewhere with abigger community so she can have muslim and non muslim friends and wont feel like an outsider.

How does your husband feel about what you are experiencing? Can he provide help/support or does he find it difficult to understand.

I was the firdt dil to do hijab from my bils (dh is one of three sons) but now both my sils do it as well. Something that 7 yrs ago i would never have imagined happening. So things can change in ways you wouldnt predict.

Hi unsure, it's nice to see such an interesting question here and I'm going to be following the thread with interest.

I am an atheist myself but I wanted to post here as the veil issue is something I'm interested in from a feminist and identity point of view.

I think when you wear a veil you are making a strong statement about your identity which people will interpret in different ways. Some people will see you as devoutly religious and this will change the way they act around you. This can have a distancing effect - perhaps they may think you would judge them for not being as devout.

Some may interpret you wearing a veil as saying 'above all things in my life, I am a muslim and that is the most important part of my identity' and if they are not muslim will struggle to find a common ground on which to connect with you.

Others may thing you wear it because you are oppressed by male figures in your life who put pressure on you to dress chastely. This may cause them to act differently towards you. Speaking personally if I was to see you wearing a hijaab while I was wearing a summer dress or something, I would be a bit worried that you may judge me or think I was dressed inappropriately. I think (and perhaps you'll disagree with me here) that covering body parts has the effect of fetishing them so that they are seen as sexual and not to be shown in public. You can see that in the western attitude towards breasts - in developing countries it is normal to breastfeed anywhere, noone would turn a hair. In the UK people will act like you are an exhibitionist for exposing a centimetre of breast when feeding a baby - because are breasts are normally covered.

Now when you start to apply this to the face and hair, you have a situation where you cannot expose them becuase they are seen as sexual, only for the husband to see. In some orthodox jewish communities women will shave their hair or cover it with a wig so as not to expose it. I do think it's sad - can you imagine males covering themselves in that way because their face/hair is only for their wives to look at?

My personal view is that you should be able to dress as you please. However, it's a matter of identity. The hijaab makes you feel like more of a muslim, but it's just a symbol. You can be feel your identity just as strongly without it if you want to.

Asalaamu alaikum sister, what has happened that you have been feeling abused by wearing it? have you had any violence towards you?

wearing hijab is a commandment from Allah and there are clear sayings from Prophet Muhammad pbuh about it so thats the main reason you should keep wearing it.

If your child is only 3 yrs old, they will not be being bullied in school for you wearing it so that is not an issue yet at least.

As for you feeling uncomfortable around family, are talking about your Muslim in-laws??? it should be the other way round, they should be uncomfortable for not wearing hijab, not you. The same goes for your husband, he should be supporting and encouraging you to you wear hijab, not saying 'its up to you' The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) didn't say 'its your choice if you wear it or not.' you need your husbands support in this, husbands and wives should be encouraging each other to practice Islam as much as they can.

As for your doing istikhara and feeling like taking your scarf off it is only the whispering of Shaitan, you don't need to do istikhara for this, read the
Qur'an verses and hadith related to covering, theres your answer in them.

i'd say, be strong and keep going, wear it for the sake of Allah because it's a commandment and as with all things pray to Allah to help you with it

i know its not easy but it is struggling for the sake of Allah, so and may Allah reward all the hijaabi sisters, Ameen xxx

Thank you and jazakhallahu khair for listening.

I'm sorry I haven't posted since my original posting. I'm checking the board everyday but am struggling with this too much to know what to say. All of your advice and insights are useful.

I've been living in London so quite a a mixed multicultural area but that doesn't seem to have stopped some of the problems. My 3 year old isn't old enough to get bullied but doesn't need to hear me called a *ing terrorist wh** either. Its not often but its enough.

My husband has been very supportive but he also worries about me and my inlaws are lovely - by uncomfortable I mean physically - I'm the one under layers of clothes at family events

Its really interesting to hear how people who aren't muslim might interpret the scarf. I promise I wouldn't judge you wearing a summer dress if I was looking at you I'd probably just be wondering where you got it and whether it would suit me to wear at home (I think I must be getting old as the current fashion to wear skin tight leggings and crop tops does not appeal to me at all but thats a mum thing not a muslim thing - I see these young girls and think 'you seem to have come out in just your tights - did you forget your skirt and cardie?' )

umayma - that is part of the problem - I'm not seeing my answer in those parts of the Quran like Surah Nur where I used to think those answers lie. Having issues about our understanding of the Quran and the lack of modern thought re checking our interpretation affects the balance of pros vs cons. If I could be sure it was a command from Allah rather than a recommendation then I would have to try and deal with the rest - but I'm not so sure anymore.

I don't know if I can be the muslim or the person I want to be and continue wearing it and I don't want to end up resenting it so much it affects my faith.

sorry, I'm not making much sense.

I wish I had an answer for you.. And I'm so ashamed that you can't wear a simple scarf without persecution. From a Christian's viewpoint, trying to decide by praying, reading the scriptures and seeking advice from friends & theologians sounds spot-on. I also think you should print out your posts and keep them to show your kids one day if they ask about it.

i know what you mean unsure muslimah and that comments are so hurtful but i don't think that taking it off because of comments is the right thing to do, it is letting the bullies win.

I'd rather have my child learn not to care what bullies say, than give in to them and try to fit in.

You can be sure that the interpretation of the Qur'an verse means covering your hair as well. All the interpretation has been done by the early scholars who have understood best,

Qur'an doesnt need any more interpretationm and giving different meanings. If this happens now it will mean people interpreting in to suit themselves, like you would do now for example, because you don't want to cover your hair anymore, you would look at the verse in a different way.

My translation says, something like 'let their headscarves fall to cover their chests' i'll check this later for you if you like.

i'd say the evidence goes in the other direction, there is evidence that this verse includes covering the face too.

Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba (r.a)
"Aisha (r.a) used to say: "When (the Verse): "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces. (Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Hadith # 282)

Narrated 'Aisha (r.a.)
The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w) used to offer the Fajr prayer and some believing women covered with their veiling sheets used to attend the Fajr prayer with him and then they would return to their homes unrecognized . (Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Hadith # 368 )

yes i know it can get a bit warm but i wear it too, its not that bad, i wear a skirt, t-shirt underneath with a jilbab and bonnet and scarf and family gatherings but it is manageable, i'm sure you can do it, winter is coming soon anyway

sorry if i'm not helping, but i think you haven't got anyone around you encouranging you to keep going, so i thought i should.

And sod what the public think about Muslims and Islam and don't let comments bother you.
We are very very lucky to be Muslims

I think you sound thoughtful and a lovely person.

If too many moderate Muslims are afraid to be publicly identified, then that leaves the public arena to the extremists, who get all too much attention as it is.

I'm sorry you have been abused for wearing hijab. I understand many devout (and educated in the faith) muslims do not wear it, so there must be more room for interpretation in the text than umaymah sees.

You don't have to decide forever, do you? You could try not wearing it and see how you feel. Keep praying, keep open about it.

I am a theist, though not muslim I worship with Quakers, who include people of all faiths and none. I believe we must all be open-minded and not prejudge others. And I live in a very multicultural area. And I wish it weren't so, but I too find I have to remind myself that it's just a piece of cloth, and the wearer is not judging me, is not necessarily that different from me. I was brought up in a very monocultural place though, maybe it's not so striking for most people.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

Oh I'm sorry you're going through this OP some people really are unfeeling, uncaring and generally not worth the space they take up. No matter what you (or anyone else for that matter) does will never be enough for them, so whatever you decide it has to be for the reasons you decide rather than what others think.

FWIW, I'm an atheist (brought up CofE) but I still believe people have the right to choose to believe in whatever religion they happen to choose.

Regarding the translations of the Qur'an, having read one translation, and also read alot of background about the early development of Islam it strikes me that what started (much like Christianity actually) as a spiritually led social justice movement (as we would understand it today) was hijacked pretty early on by people who recognised it could be used and manipulated as a source of power and control. From what I understand, even before the death of the propet there were multiple versions of what then became the Qur'an circulating and after this multiplied further. There are also multiple ways to translate from the original language too, so that different passages can be interpreted in many different ways.

The bible also has this issue incidentally, try comparing a King James with a modern translation and a Roman Catholic with evangelical christian to see how the different interpretations can bring out very different meanings.

Perhaps the best approach is to use your personal relationship with God to direct which translation of the text you feel is the correct one.

You also ask about the development of new ideas and interpretations particularly with respect to women's rights and feminism within islam, there are many encouraging writers out there who are tackling these issues and I recommend reading some of them. I enjoyed Leila Ahmed and Reza Aslan in particular, though that could of course be because I generally agreed with what they were saying!

I hope this helps

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to see your thoughts on this - it is fascinating to me and such a thoughtful post. I am CofE, have lived in London most of my life, and so am familiar with seeing women in headscarves haven't had many conversations about the thinking behind them (main conversation I remember was when a friend started wearing one, so the other way round to you).

Could you describe how you dress at the minute and what the change would be? Do you wear a headscarf and loose clothing, or a headscarf and 'western-but-modest' clothing? Is there a 'relaxing' of your dress you can make without a drastic change? There seem to be lots of different ways of wearing a headscarf, ranging from 'covering your head loosely but hair can still be seen' to 'scarft tightly bound to your head' rather like the nuns in the Sound of Music.

Salaam Alaikum,

Firstly as you sister in Islam, I support you whatever your choice.

Just to clarify, is it wearing hijab itself you don't like or being identifiable as Muslim?

If it's the latter then, while removing your hijab means you may not get the abuse in the street (and I know who awful that is and I can fully understand you wanting to avoid that), you'll still get the same sort of crap when people find out you're Muslim.

From your op, I'm getting that you're frustrated with lots of things about Muslims generally, which again, I understand.

I know so many women who feel the same way,so many. Insha Allah the next few years will see some major changes in the Ummah as these women begin to make their voices heard.

IMVVVVHO, if you physically hated wearing hijab, then taking it off would solve the problem, but I think your problem is more with the behaviour of others, so I'm not sure how much wearing hijab would change things.

I hope that helps slightly, it is tough and you have my support.

Salamalaykum Unsuremuslimah,
I am muslim but have never worn hijab. I have muslim friends who do, who don't and who used to. Everyone of them would agree that it is a very personal decision. For the ones who used to I would say that they had reached the depths of despair before taking of their hijabs. If you think that people will stop seeing you as the 'ambassador of Islam' and stop asking questions then think again. The questions continue only this time people tend to presume that you have been abused (obviously by your husband or other male relative (yawn)and run away) or have been saved (yawn).

It sounds like you are really tormenting yourself over this decision which must mean it is taking it's toll on you. I would say listen to your heart and concentrate on your eman. Ramadan will soon be here and that will help focus you on the reason as to why we are muslim rather than just hijab. If the issue of hijab was taken out of the equation how would you feel? Is there anything else that niggles at you? or questions your faith? Maybe addressing those issues may help to settle how you feel about hijab. You mention the lack of leadership or rather those who are fighting for attention, I think we all feel like that. No one represents anyone yet everyone claims to.

I view hijab as just one of the roles that I need to fulfill as a muslim woman, there are so many other roles which also need to be fulfilled. So much attention is given to women covering I wonder if other issues are being left by the wayside.

If you take off your hijab the general street abuse may stop but if you still look like a muslim you may still get abuse. Removing it might not change anything. It might not guarantee anything, whatever you decide you have my support.

I am amazed and upset to hear that you are getting verbal abuse for wearing your scarf in London. Around here we have quite a few different religions where the women (and men) wear various sorts of head coverings and it is generally quite tolerant.

i am sorry that this is happening to you

as the above poster said its really upsetting to hear u have been so badly insulted for ur scarf, especially in london you don't expect it

op i have been thru a similar kind of situation recently, not with hijab but niqab - in the last about 1 month i've taken my niqab off, which in a way i feel sad about, but at the moment i felt its not right for me to wear it because it was making me feel hypocrite kinda, because i dont do as much as i should and i felt like it gives a certain impression whereas really im not doing all these nafl things, i dont get up 4 tahajjud, nafl salah, nafl fasting, dnt revise quran as much as i should, basically not prioritsing my time correctly and for that reason felt fake, as tho i make myself look better than i am? although some say this is wasawis and its only shaytan that makes u leave something good that ur already doing... i dont really know. atm i dont feel inclined to put it back on but then i didnt think its compulsory in the 1st place.

slightly dif situation as yours seems more that u want to take it off due 2 external things/reaction etc rather than how u are feeling within urself, as u said u do feel close to Allah and it reminds u to strive etc.. i thought i wd just share mine as its along the same kinda lines though

but as for your hijab personally i would really advice you not to, because i think that could cause a major effect on ur iman, closeness to Allah and all of that? obviously noone can force you, but for hijab its worth forcing urself imo, or rather the better solution if possible at all, is to take yourself out of the situation where its being made too difficult and into a more accepting kind of area. i dont know where in london you live, but many places are not a problem @ all for hijab. you said yourself you love your scarf so just thinking that you might regret if you take it off? then you might find it hard to put back on again, if you decided you wanted it back?

my advice is wait and see how u feel during and after ramadan, because u might get a further iman boost that makes it easier to put up with comments etc. rather than doing istikhara to take it off or not, i would do dua for Allah to make it easier for you and keep u firm upon doing it. but obviously if you are feeling inclined to take it off maybe you dont want to ask that? just then do dua Allah to guide you to what is right, and what will benefit you more overall.

as for your kids i think it wil help them more if you keep it on though because they will see their mum with hijab and it becomes normal to them, if they see you getting comments they will only learn that we do these things for the sake of Allah and sometimes ppl make it difficult for us, they wouldnt learn to hate hijab because of that necesarily

but all this also depends on whether u feel hijab is fardh, i think it is fardh by ijma though? not the face, but like just the normal hijab.. i havent seen from any scholars that we are allowed to not wear it

if u want to talk to a female scholar i can try and get a phone # for u?

Thank-you so much all of you. It is so helpful to have other thoughts and ideas and my head is so messed up at the moment.

I think the scarf has become a focus for me as it represents different things to different people and I guess because it is a very easy thing for me to focus on when I can't change what else is going on in the muslim community and the world at large!

I wear very western clothes otherwise as I am an english convert - so without my scarf I just look like a bit of a hippy in my long loose clothes. its usually loose jeans and a kurta type top or long shirt. I have wondered if I get more abuse because of my skin colour. I have been called a traitor to my race which I find very hurtful.

I don't really want to hide my faith but wearing on my sleeve (or my head so to speak!) is really getting me down. I've been lucky to find some fantastic friends, muslim and non muslim who accept me for who I am but I'm not sure I can cope with everyone I pass in the street knowing anymore. I am so relieved to get it off when I get home now as I am starting to hate the piece of material which is stupid but just a symptom I think.

I have asked Allah for so long to make it easy for me and yet it is getting harder. I feel like a confused child which is completely at odds with how I usually approach life and my faith. I have a feeling I will take it off just to make the issue go away for a while and concentrate on other things in the deen, but I don't know and time is running out as I really need to decide before I move next month

Why don't you take it off and see how you like it? If you are not happy without your hijab, you can always put it back on.

I come from a Muslim country where these things are left to individual choice. There are many many Muslim women of strong faith who don't wear the hijab.

The only thing I would remind you is that you should do this because you want to, not because you feel bullied into it.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

salaam sister,

i am sorry to hear you have had abuse from wearing hijab. i have had a similar struggle but the other way round. i want to start wearing hijaab but like u am scared of peoples reactions given the high level of anti muslim feeling at the moment. i think like someone else said best to maybe focus on ramadan and do what you feel best. there are many practising people who fast pray etc but who are not quite yet ready to wear hijaab. i dont think it necessarily decreases your muslimness.

when inshallah i wear it i want that decision to be final and dont want to do it halfheartedly,

i know this is all not v helpful but i bet there are many others in your position.

remember nasty comments are from ignorance and most people who abuse know nothing of islam.

i think it shows a good example to your kids that in spite of bad people we are still really proud to be muslim.

hope you reach a decision soon

take care

I admire your courage in all the thinking you're doing.

I'm a Christian so obviously can't comment on the Quran and hadith and other faith elements of it. But from my point of view, the key question would be whether wearing the scarf is bringing you closer to Allah...

It strikes me that for you to remove your scarf would be making as bold a statement about your faith as you did by deciding to wear hijab in the first place.

(And I think that on any message board the difficult questions tend to go unanwered!)

Thank-you all and thankyou for the link Riven.

i've been reading quite a bit lately on the topic of obligatry/recommended and I think I have come to the conclusion that we will probably never know for sure. I do however believe in the Most Gracious, Most Merciful God and I can't believe that He would look only at that aspect of me.

At the moment it is hindering my relationship with Him and that is what i want so much to protect.

I think BreastmilkDoesAFabLatte makes a good point - it will be so hard to take it off and I am worried about the statement people will read into it. For me it is a growth in faith but i am worried people will think I am rejecting Islam.

I would understand it the way you describe it. I'd see you as sufficiently secure in your faith not to need as outward a symbol as hijab to demonstrate it. I believe modesty comes from our attitude and behaviour far more than from simply the way we dress...