HELP! What do I ask a breeder about their pups?

[kid]

I have located some springer pups that may be suitable for my family but what do I ask the breeder?
They are KC registered but have given next to no details about the litter.
Do I jump straight in and ask if the parents have been tested for God knows what! Do I find out if the pups have been vet checked yet? What else do I need to know?

Anyone care to help me, I am very anxious about needing a healthy pup for obvious reasons.
These pups are only 9 days old

Thanks Tombilboob.

I have typed up an email asking if they can tell me anything about the pups parents and the pups. I'll wait and see if they reply, if not, I won't be chasing them. I want to make sure I get the right dog for us.

Research the breeder too. Is this the one in Cambridge? If so, do you want to send me an email with the details as that's my area - of course I don't have much to do with breeders but I may know someone who does know them.

See the mother with the pups - dad too if he's theirs, if not, ask where he is and who owns him and check them out. Is mum a good mum? Is she healthy? How old is she? How many litters has she had and if relevent when was the last?

Ask how many litters the breeders have had overall, how long they've been breeding and whether they have any other litters (or do a sneaky and Google their phone number to see if they are/have advertised others!). I personally would avoid anyone breeding from multi-dog households. Are they licenced with the council and if so which one? Details on who needs to be licensed HERE

There's good advice http://www.itsaspringthing.co.uk/health.htm HERE on hereditary disease and what to look out for.

Also, it may be worth finding a breed rescue nearest the breeder and asking them if they have ever heard of/had experience of the breeder.

HTH and good luck.

thank you Vallhala

This breeder is in Dover. Not that close to me (1 1/2 drive away) but a lot closer than others I have seen.

I am a member of that website you posted so will have a look at hereditary deiseases. The breeder hasn't posted any photos of the pups which is probably a good thing otherwise I would have picked one and named it already! I promise I am being sensible and will continue to be sensible at all times.
If I feel I am getting a bit carried away, I will report back here for some common sense.

After our heartbreak, I need to make sure I am 100% happy as I can't go through that ever again.

Ah, I foresee a day at the seaside for the Kid family coming up!

Don't know of any Springer rescues around there to ask but am sure I can find one and I do know of some all breed ones in Kent so if you do need me to put out a quiet call to investigate the breeder, just shout. I really, really hope that they turn out just perfect for you, god knows you deserve it.

Vallhala, if you know any breeders that have pups due or pups available for their new home around August I'd be really happy for you to investigate, if you don't mind that is. I'm in East London but can drive.

If I have to travel to get a pup, I might as well travel to one that comes recommended. Just as long as they aren't asking for £900 or something ridiculous for their pups!

Both me and DH are keen on getting a pup now, DC are still unsure as they think it will die too. DS asked 'If we get another puppy, can he keep his nuts!'
Kids are just so funny. He was deadly serious when he asked though lol

Thanks for your support and understanding.
I wish I could get a rescue dog, but we are really set on getting a puppy.
Once we are sorted out with our new pup, I will donate to a doggie home to make me feel better.

Oh bless, that's lovely of you!

As I said in my email, I really do understand. Don't know of any breeders but I know a lady who might. She's a fellow rescuer who owns a rescued Sprollie as well as a BC pup. She does agility with the Sprollie so mixes with a lot of Springer owners - I'll ask.

Just googled that breeder and it seems she has a labrador litter for sale too, both litters born on the same day
I really have no idea how to research breeders and what they should and shouldn't be doing.

Will see what he/she says if they reply to my email. But first impressions, it doesn't seem good. See, still being sensible.
Well not that sensible as I have to be up for work in 6 hours and still have lunches to make!
Good night

(Please do ask your friend for me)

Have just put in an ask and will let you know if anyone has any idea of breeders local-ish to you as soon as I do.

(I put it on my local rescue's forum as not only is the lady I mentioned a member but there are a couple of others who might know on there too. Feeling very brave as the rescue owner, who is also a good friend, is fervently of the "why breed and buy when pound dogs die" ilk, as I normally am... but I know the background, he doesn't. That said, I did put it on the private part of the board which only a certain few of us have access to. I may be feeling brave but I ain't that stupid!!!).

Thanks. Feel free to explain my circumstances and my dc's delicate hearts after losing their beloved puppy. It's not a lie and sympathy votes usually work.

I did. Rescue owner still was not happy! I am officially in the shit!

He did suggest 3 young Springers, all in rescue in Ireland. From my experience, some I could help get to the UK, some rescues won't allow this. There is also a beautiful Springer pup on death row in an Irish pound.

Also, Many Tears Rescue (Wales but has dogs all over the place in foster and rehomes across the UK), has an adorable Springer X Lab who is 9 months old. She's considered very calm and sweet, is a failed gun dog, and can be nervous. They also have a 2 yo Springer and tons of puppies, though no Springer babies. Their website is HERE should you change your mind about a breeder's pup.

And if you don't? It's YOUR choice and for once, I'm not criticising!

Oh, and you just have to have a look at the 7 week old Collie pups on Many Tears rescue site.

There's also a Springer X Lab girl, 18mo, abandoned because she wouldn't hunt, an 18mo Sprollie considered sweet but slightly worried. And yet more puppies, and dogs which have been left by the road, bred and bred and bred from, abused... heartbreaking.

Sorry to interupt... Valhalla, where is the pup is an Irish pound? Maybe I can help with that? Always room here for a temporary one... (although the last temporary one, um, wasn't very temporary... )

Kid, I would steer clear or at least be extremely wary of any breeder with two litters at once, especially of different breeds. Have you contacted the breed club? It might mean waiting a little longer for a pup, but would also likely mean meeting breeders prior to cute little puppies being around and so therefore you can look at things more objectively. The breed club will know which are the most ethical breeders and which too steer clear of. They will also be able to tell you in detail which health tests need doing and why.

Well bred pups are expensive, it costs a lot of money to rear them properly. Health testing is also expensive.

I am off out now for a bit, but will post properly later.

Hi Midori. I don't know which pound the pup is in tbh, as I do my best now to avoid anything to do with Irish pounds. (Long story, I used to so an awful lot of rescue from Ireland).

I'll endeavour to find out but I would lay a large bet that as he's a pup Irish rescuers will get him out. It's the old dogs, the ones with kennel cough and the ones who growl in fear at their surroundings which need our help even more. These, and also the dogs (pups too, lots of them) you don't get to see or know of, those which pound managers 'do a cover up' on and hide in the pound stables and outhouses and/or refuse point blank to allow out need tears shedding for, they're the ones killed in Irish pounds by the hundred each week. Trust me, it happens.

I'll show you what I mean in a moment.

Meantime... Kid, just a further thought -Heathlands in Royston, Herts, tends to have Spaniels quite often, partly because it rescues from Irish pounds. Oh, and you want to see the 10 week old Lab pup on their rehoming list... oooooohhhh!

kid - this guy is in an Irish pound and could be brought over to the UK, for example. He was surrendered by his owners so could by Irish law be killed immediately he was signed over.

Dundalk dog

My agility-going Sprollie owning pal knows (via her agility club) of some COCKERS who were ready to leave on 10th June.

They just happen to be in the next village to my own, so if you were interested I'd insist I came too happily have a cuppa on offer for you as you passed by.

I really appreciate the help and advice I'm getting and I am truely grateful.
We have set our hearts on getting a springer so I am no longer considering a cocker as the dog will belong to all of us so I want it to be a breed we all agree on.

I have seen 3 young springers in need of a home, all are gorgeous and aged between 7 and 10 months. I don't know where they are being cared for at the moment though.
I can't get anything for another 10(ish) weeks as it would been dog/pup going to stay with someone for 2 weeks and I figured that would be confusing for him. I thought it was better to wait until we are back from holiday. The last reason fir wanting the dog straight after holiday is I will have about 10 days at home to totally dedicate to my new family member.

I got a reply from the breeder, just turning the laptop on and I'll share what I found out (using iPod at the moment and it's a pain to write on!)

right, thats better can use the laptop now!

The litter in question is a 2nd litter. The previous litter was born last year and there were 10 puppies, 2 of which were born dead
This year, the dog has had 6 live pups and they are doing really well (does that mean some were born dead?)
The father of the pups is the same dog.
No tests have been done on the parent dogs as far as I can tell. I did ask and was told Labradors are tested for hips, eyes and elbows. I am assuming that means the Springers have not been tested.

They have had no information back on problems from last years litter and as far as they are aware, there are no genetic problems with the puppies.

They are working dogs, where there tends to be less inbreeding with working dogs.

The breeder also have a female labrador that was bred with the springer.

I don't know but I guess my instincts tell me to leave this litter. I have seen photos of the puppies, but I know full well that all puppies are cute. They are only a week old and are all liver and white, a colour that we said we wouldn't get as it was the same as Moby.

I am going to have to leave this litter, aren't I?

kid, go with your gut.

I walked away from one litter that had all the boxes ticked re health checks, worming, socialisation etc just because something felt wrong in my gut.

If you want to go for a pedigree dog have you checked on the kennel club website for what the recommended health checks are?

There is bound to be an online forum for springers. The one for labradors was (and still is) a fabulous wealth of information for me. The other route to go down when looking for a litter which gets lots of recommendations is to contact your local breed club.

This person is KC registered.
I don't know if I feel uncertain because of what happened to Moby, or if I have real cause to be concerned.
I am going to be neurotic now, I just know I am and I am prepared for someone else to do the thinking for me!

I have to go and pick DC up shortly, but definitely need to investigate this further.
From what the vet told me, we had no way of knowing what would happen to Moby. It is believed he had congenital heart diseade, an anuerysm or a stroke. No test could have detected any of these reasons so I just don't know what to think or do.

I guess I want a dog that has had a 100% healthy litter, more than once! I also want any test that can be done to have been done and a vet to have checked the pups too.
(I don't want much really do I?!) lol
I don't know if they are unreasonable requests or not. I got Moby without doing any of these checks, but I have been led to believe by the vet, we couldn't have found out anything was wrong anyway.

I think there is no way of knowing you will get a 100% healthy pup. All you can do is try to reduce the possibility of having a pup with inherited breed conditions. The KC website has lots of info on what health checks are recommended, so you need to know these and the scores (I'm thinking of hip scores) to look for.

some info here on a springer website.

Being KC registered is (unfortunately) no guarrantee for getting a healthy pup. You need a list of screening questions to ask the breeder on the phone before you go and have a look. I said 'no thank you' to a LOT of litters on the phone as the breeders hadn't done the health screening tests.

It's well worth waiting for a pup from a good breeder.

Walk away. Do not touch a litter from parents that are not health tested. No matter what the 'breeder' tells you, there are no good reasons for this. Also, if they have told you they are a KC registered breeder, they are lying, there is no such thing. They can have a KC Affix or be an accredited breeder, but anyone, including puppy farmers can apply for these or even be an accredited breeder.

Working dogs are not always the best option for a pet home, especially in a breed like Spingers. They are much more 'driven' than show lines which tend to be much calmer, although Springers are never calm as such. It is nonsense that there is less inbreeding in working dogs too. Inbreeding is rarely done anyway, what is done is linebreeding, which is different and not necessarily bad, but the subject is extremely complicated and something that I won't go into in case I bore everyone to sleep...

You are unlikely to find many breeders who have repeatedly done the same breeding. In order to keep the gene pool diverse, repeat matings are usually something only done where there is a good reason to, for example, a high number of pups fromt he previous mating having been exceptional quality or excelled in the show ring/working field and even then, that is not something that would really be proven a year down the line. Also, most good, ethical breeders breed fairly rarely and would only allow a bitch to have 2-3 litters, feeling the Kennel Club's 'allowance' of six is far too high.

Thank you for the good advice.
I am going to walk away from this litter and search for another.

Where do you recommend a good place to look?
Our vet is keeping an eye open for us and he suggested the kennel club.

Technically, a potential pup probably hasn't been born yet if we are to home him towards the end of august! I am willing to travel approx 1.5 hours from east london

I know it's right to leave this litter and I don 't even feel sad at not having found a pup yet. Omg, I am being much more sensible that usual

Ring the Springer breed club, they will either have a list of litters on their site or a puppy co-ordinator who will help you.

Please remember that KC registration is the mimimum standard, and by absolutely no means any sort of marque of quality, sadly. Health tested parents are also the minimum any breeder should do, they are not good breeders for doing it, testing goes without saying.

Thanks midori1999, I assume I can find the contact details online?
I suppose I should feed my kids before starting to search. Otherwise it will be bedtime before I know it.
I also have to take my surrogate dog home soon, her owners will think we have dognapped her!