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Doggy Ph.D recall thread

62 replies

WynkenBlynkenandNod · 22/02/2010 12:48

As a first time dog owner I'm finding this recall thing to be hard work and I would guess I'm not the only one -though accept the rest of you are all far more proficient at dog training than me and I might be on my own !

I need to have for my sanity one of those dogs who will recall beautifully in any situation and although she has made a lot of progress there is still a long way to go (she's 8 months).

Would anyone like to join me on my mission and would the experienced people who have cracked this mind offering some tips ?

OP posts:
EdwardianSnowdropExpert · 22/02/2010 12:49
Bella32 · 22/02/2010 13:22

It's always the hardest thing, IME. Mostly because you think you've cracked it when your little puppy always comes bounding up to you, but then teenage attitude kicks in at 6-9 months and it all goes to pot. Very unsettling but totally normal IME.

I can't give you a foolproof method - I have trouble with recall sometimes too (ask Minimu ) but Culture Clash is very good on recall training methods.

Do remember (and I'm sure you know this) that it's a big wide exciting world out there and they physically cannot hear you if they are sufficiently distracted, and you must always be 100% positive when they do come back, no matter how long it takes.

A whistle carries better than your voice (very little skill or training needed to use one - I use one, fgs!) and a big handful of very smelly treats (hot dogs, cheese, liver etc) is essential.

Back later but Minimu is the guru

WynkenBlynkenandNod · 22/02/2010 13:31

Thanks Bella. We are at the teenage stage I think so I do use a long line a fair bit of the time. One thing I have started doing is she only gets her treat for coming back to me when I have touched her collar, I used to do this then got a bit lazy and find it helps.

She is whistled trained which helps but I have learned that if she does leg it, which she did after a friend's dog who was walking the other way the other day, no amount of whistling works, so I don't bother and go and retrieve her. I just can't imagine there is any treat/toy more exciting for other dogs for her. I get mugged by other dogs in the wood as am always armed with stinky treats but they just don't cut it, other dogs are a higher value treat atm.

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Bella32 · 22/02/2010 13:43

Sounds like you are doing very well. Yes, no point whistling away if you're not being heard.

Amongst other tactics I have taken to hiding among trees a lot lately - takes a bit of nerve but if you hide long enough pup will come and find you. Just be careful not to be spotted crouching in a ditch like I was

notimefortv · 22/02/2010 13:48

hello - am I safe to come in - I need to escape!

iggypiggy · 22/02/2010 13:48

I totally second the whistle training - it is a more reliable cue because it is consistent (voice pitch/ tone changes) plus means that your dog gets the exact same comand from any family member

I trained my recall using clicker training. He also has voice command of 'come' and visual command of my hand held at waist height horizontally. I find it v. handy to have several methods just in case you forget whistle or something.

Only thing i would say that if you find a comand stops working - you may have had an extinction (meaning they now know they don't HAVE to obey the comand) - so it may be an idea to train to a new whistle or voice comand. An example of that for me was with gundog training - mine learnt to ignore the 'dead' comand (to drop dummy into my hand) - so I trained to a new word = 'drop' and got my retireves good again.

You need good treats - unless your dog not interested in treats - then you have to find what they dog like - eg. toys?

Not sure that helps/ makes sense

WynkenBlynkenandNod · 22/02/2010 13:49

at the ditch ! I do try to hide and I walk off in the other direction if she doesn't come back off lead which helps. I'm getting better at not falling over the long line, though there was an incident when she jumped over a ditch with water in the other day then went round 3 trees and got tied up.

We're lucky that we have loads of woodland so it is easy to find a deserted spot so she can get a run off lead.

Am off to walk her in a minute so will see what today brings, I'm going to go somewhere more crowded with my extending lead I think to see how she does.

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iggypiggy · 22/02/2010 13:51

bella the hiding did work for me when mine was learning

WynkenBlynkenandNod · 22/02/2010 13:52

Didn't see you there Notime, you are very welcome.

Iggy gundog training, I am in awe ! Like the idea of a visual cue, will try introducing that in a minute. Plog is clicker word trained which has been hugely helpful.

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WynkenBlynkenandNod · 22/02/2010 13:54

I have flipping brilliant treats for recall but still nothing trumps other dog. Back in a bit, am going to brave the wild wet woods.

Notime, you need to get a whistle I reckon when you've recovered from yesterday. Also, our local dog rescue has a field they hire out for recall training but unfortunately there's a waiting list so we haven't got in yet. If you feel that something like that would be helpful it might be worth ringing around.

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iggypiggy · 22/02/2010 13:55

don't be in awe - we're not very good at retrieves (he mainly drops the dummy and runs back to me without it) - therefore not very good at the gundog thing - but the training is fun and v. enjoyable.

hatwoman · 22/02/2010 13:59

the best advice I read was that you have to be the most exciting thing to your dog. you have to be better than interesting smells, other people, other dogs. ie you have to make the dog want to come back to you.

so...huge and delicious treats (use them liberally than dock his normal meal iyswim); and/or toys and games. Doog adores his ball and if we take that on a walk we end up with the opposite problem - we can't actually get him away from us, apart from to retreive the ball obviously.

the other good bit of advice was to practice all the time on walks - don't let your dog associate coming back with the end of the walk and fun.

Bella32 · 22/02/2010 13:59

Culture Clash is really good on recall with distractions and chase recalls. It's all about making yourself or a toy seem The Most Exciting Thing In The Whole Wide World.

Come in, notime. You are very welcome here

Minimu is the font of all wisdom though. Just remember to brush the dog hairs off her chair and put plenty of hob nobs out for her when she arrives

notimefortv · 22/02/2010 14:00

I'm gonna keep pup on the long line in the field from now on for sure - can I drop this ever though or just let her have a good sniff around then every minute or so call her back into me? (that's what I have been doing)

Problem comes when she sees something of interest, do I:

a. Call her to try to get her more interesed in me?
b. Use the sit command?
c. Just use the lead to stop her going?

help please.

Thanks

iggypiggy · 22/02/2010 14:00

wynken what breed is your dog?

Mine was the exact same - other dogs trump everything - he either outgrew this or my training worked - I like to think the latter - but he was terrible at about a year old... (pic on my profile if you want to see him)

Bella32 · 22/02/2010 14:00

x post hatwoman - did you see my comment re greyhounds on that other thread? You can get cat-friendly ones

WynkenBlynkenandNod · 22/02/2010 14:22

I'm in the woods, have hidden twice, will report on progress later.

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controlfreakery · 22/02/2010 14:25

like this thread!

ok. so my 7 month puppy will come back when called (sometimes after a while!) buyt finds other dogs soooo exciting that she always races off to sniff and play...

i call and keep on walking, try not to chase after her / follow her when she goes off and always reward her when she comes. i also try to call and treat her frequently when she's off the lead and to put her on lead for a bit and then let her off again / try not always to put her on lead at same place at end of walk.....

BUT, she's no fool and is now v v adept at racing up to me, grabbing treat and racing off. v suspicious i'm going to put her back on lead every time. it's hard not to end up grabbing at her sometimes but i know i shouldn't.

she's not that food obsessed so not that bothered about getting treats if i try to get her to sit and wait before treating etc....

any tips? IT'S NOT EASY IS IT!

minimu · 22/02/2010 14:30

With recall, you have to first think what you want and then what that means to the dog.

Eg to the owner recall means the dog must stop what it is doing and come to me

The dog hears the recall command and thinks I have to stop having fun and now go back to my owner.

If you are mumsnetting and I ask you to stop and do the ironing I bet you would not log off and come running equally the same for the dog. (although mine of course mine love ironing)

Recall for the dog must mean that something FANTASTIC is going to happen not something good end.

Also it is never a matter of training the recall and then you never have to train it again. It is an ongoing thing.

First find what gets your dog going, it may be a toy, it may be food, it may be chasing. When you get a puppy the first thing you must do is to teach it to play. If you have a dog that will play you can teach it anything. I hear all the time my dog does not like to play - believe me all dogs can be taught to play if the play is fun enough for them.

Have a recall command you may find it easier to call it "play" or whistle command. Then say the word and play like crazy with the dog. Do it when the dog is near by. I can't say enough that recall should mean the beginning of something great not the end. Do it loads and loads each day. You may have to change the routine when the dog comes sometimes play sometimes run and hide, sometimes treat keep changing the reward.

You first need the dog to be able to do this in the house, then in the garden, then in the house if someone else is holding food, then in the house if someone else is playing with the dog, then in the garden etc. Then with another dog on a lead in the garden just gradually build up the distractions. (I can give a list of distractions if you need one- it will depend on each dog individually).

Until your dog is 100% they should not be allowed to run free for several reasons.

  1. safety
  2. if they get used to ignoring the command you have wasted all your time and the dog is just training you to accept refusal. Never ever do a recall if you know the dog is going to fail.

The teenager stage is tricky but again you need to train to succeed you may need to up the reward. Think teenager playing x box and asked to do the washing up! You will have to up the anti a bit here and then as this stage passes you will soon have a fab recall.

Do not allow your dog to refuse the recall so at times this may mean prempting behaviour - you will have to scan the horizon for other dogs, geese etc.

If your dog does like playing with other dogs do not restrict this but allow it on your own terms.

Never ever recall the dog at the end of a walk, and never ever recall and put the lead on the dog initially. Recall the dog towards the end of the walk and then play some games, hiding, jumping, searching etc and then put on the lead and end the walk.

Remember recall must mean the beginning of something fun not the end.

EdwardianSnowdropExpert · 22/02/2010 14:52

rofl at Wynken 'I'm in the woods' are you on your i-phone reading up on tips from within a bush?

minimu, when you say never, ever do a recall if you know the dog is going to fail, when you have done the training in the house, garden, quiet outside area etc and you are having 100% success and you then go for off lead in a more exciting place and something unexpected happens - as life is wont to do (like a herd of squirrels dance past all with little lumps of cheese in their paws) and there is just no way you can compete with that...

what then?

minimu · 22/02/2010 14:58

The dog will not be off a lead if the recall is not 100%. So in this instance they would be on a long lead you see the squirrels within cheese in their paws, shout the recall command, run in the opposite direction with the best toy you can find and cheese from Harrods, ready for the best game ever Dog will follow and you again have been even more exciting than the squirrels.

EdwardianSnowdropExpert · 22/02/2010 15:03

I totally understand what you are saying, and I think Harrods do cheese by mail-order but I'm just not sure I could ever be more exciting than a squirrel.

Until I am more exciting than the troupe of squirrels the dog cannot be allowed to fail, and therefore cannot be allowed off the long lead, is that right?

ShinyAndNew · 22/02/2010 15:07

I am practising recall by tying rope to devil dogs collar, letting him run up and down the alley then recalling and click and treat upon his return. He is slowly improving.

Once he is at 100% with no distractions we are going to borrow a friends dog to add distractioon/set the children playing at the other end of the alley etc.

Unitll he gets it, he is not allowed off leash.

WynkenBlynkenandNod · 22/02/2010 15:07

Iggy, she is a right mix, lab/poodle/bearded collie, looks a bit like a thin legged shaggy chocolate lab with a beard, I'll try to work out how to put pic on profile later. Your dog is absolutely gorgeous and I am still impressed with the gundog bit whatever you say.

Minimu, I have chocolate hobnobs, I hope they do the job for your hugely helpful post. I think the root of it is I'm not interesting enough. We had to teach her how to play with a ball but she has sussed that and fetch now but just doesn't seem interested when out and about as prefers sniffing and jumping in puddles.

Today went fairly OK. Saw a Jack Russell on way into wood whilst she was on extending lead (couldn't face trailing long line through the mud), called her and she did come. Went on for a bit then let her off as no one around. I did spot someone way ahead who was going off the main path but she didn't see their dog.

Next I hid twice and whistled so she found me after a bit. There was a slight moment of panic when I peeked round my tree and couldn't see her but luckily she reappeared. Our once big success today was going round corners, I'd tell her to wait whilst she's on the extending lead, I then peer round corner and tell her OK when she can go.

She did mess around a bit when I called her and she didn't come until I walked off in the opposite direction then raced around trying to keep out of the way. In the end the lure of a treat did win that one. And, she has been refusing to sit when asked a couple of times.

Tried to introduce hand signal but she unusually for her had a poo so I was carting poo bag round as well as leads so didn't go anywhere with that. I didn't read as far as Minimu's post in the wood and I regret letting her off. Need to go back to the drawing board on being more exciting, this is where it all falls down I think.

Edwardian, at one point I thought I was going to have to give you all my location as there was a nasty incident when I got stuck in the mud, must stop playing with person toys whilst dog walking and concentrate on being fun for the dog

OP posts:
Bella32 · 22/02/2010 15:33

pmsl at Wynken posting from the bush