Am I entitled to my money back for a puppy I can't keep?

[cordonbleugh]

basically, I have a puppy I can't keep, he is 13 weeks old, and has done exeptionally well with training etc, knows quite a few commands already, is very clever etc, apart from one issue - the biting, it's not just normal biting and rough play, but is actually very agressive.

Before you say anything, I have tried EVERYTHING to train him out of this, no techniques work, and when his agression is directed at my 3yo DD, I just cant take the risk that he will grow out of it.

It's not fair on her, DD can't be a normal 3yo, do anything she norally does for fear of getting attacked!

So, the breeder has agreed to have him back, but says she has no money to refund to me!

I'm assuming that she used the money for the sale of the puppies to pay off a large debt, because 8 puppies at £250 each is a lot of money!!

He is not purebred by the way, so he is not kennel club registered or anything like that.

I have asked her to have him back asap, otherwise he will go to dogs trust or somewhere similar, but now she is getting a bit nasty towards me (via text!) about the whole situation.

I made a mistake in getting the puppy and fully admit to that, now i just want him gone before he hurts DD again. I did a LOT of research, and waited months before getting him btw, so it was definately not and impulse decision, it just hasn't worked out

Anyone got any advice?

thanks val and bella. I have to disagree with you on one point though, I am not "unwilling to train the pup", as i have already stated, I have put in a lot of work to try and nip this behaviour in the bud, it started a couple of weeks ago, as normal puppy behaviour, which is obviously to be expected, but all the techniques I have tried to overcome his escalating aggression have not worked.

I have tried yelping, firm 'NO!', turning away and folding ars, ignoring, replacing the body part he is biting with one of his toys, grabbing his scruff and giving a small shake as his mother would have done, spraying hi with water, then using water with a small amount of vinegar in, seperation and more.......none of these things work, in fact, if I do anything to correct him, he just barks and growls at me.

So I have tried my hardest, I really honestly have tried my best, and you know what? I have trained him well in other respects - he doesn't jump up, he doesnt bark at the door, he sits, lies down, gives paw, comes when called and walks at heel on command, he is pretty much housetrained.

It is just this one issue that I can't seem to control. I still love rotties and labs, and all large breed dogs, It hasn't put me off dogs.

He does deserve a second chance although I truly believe he has aggressive tendencies, I don't think he's evil, but the fact remains that he attacks my DD, and has already hurt her once. I have to put her welfare and needs first.

Someone I know who runs an animal sanctuary and rehomes animals, says you need to match the people with the animal and more importantly, the animal to the person. It seems as if this puppy is not for you and would suit a home or environment without young children or cats. Not all dogs have the temperament for living with young children. Dog's have individual characters just like we do.

What I'm unclear about is why is the breeder is being abusive?

Hiya

Have scanned and am annoyed. Rottys aren't a vicious breed, some rotties are viscious some aren't. No it's not JUST the owners but alot of the time its cos the parents were mistreated or the puppies haven't got a strong owner.

Don't keep the dog, dont return it to breeder and FGS dont send it to the RSPCA. IF you want gone of dog please log onto www.animallifelineuk.org and we'll try to find a foster home with rescue backup who can work with the dog to overcome its problems.

FWIW - I dont blame you for wanting a big dog, I can't be doing with yappy little dogs myself and have just got a 22 week old collieXspringer. She nips, she bites, she growls. SHE'S A PUPPY!!
You're saying your are willing to train the puppy but you're not. I understand why you're not but to say you are is just wrong. If you were you'd have a behaviourist/trainer in there now.

Anyways....good luck and hope the pup gets a good home and the breeder doesn't breed again. Take a look at some of the stats of animals being PTS at the moment. I work with rescues and I know for a fact of a pound where they just put 30 dogs to sleep yesterday so shame on anyone who breeds solely for money.

well, it got to the point earlier where I just wanted him to go asap, my mum and stepdad are concerned for my DD's safety, so have offered to take him to a dogs home, they mentioned RSPCA, not knowing the things that we know about them.

I made the decision to give him up on saturday, and during a conversation with the breeder, I did mention that I wouldn't give him to a shelter.........this was before he actually hurt DD, which was on sunday.

Earlier in the week, breeder asked me if I would have the pup that she kept for a couple of weeks, she would bring him over, I said yes initially, but then turned it down when i realised it would be insane for me to have 2 puppies in the house! She then said that she couldnt have my pup til she'd found somewhere else for hers to go....

But she had the money to bring her pup here, but then wouldnt coe and pick my pup up when I said I needed him to go?!

BTW, I had arranged for her to come and get him cos she lives an hour away, I dont drive/have a car, and all family and friends that could take me over there are unavailable at the moment.

But this morning he was being very vicious towards DD so I said to her that i needed her to get him asap, and if she can't then my mum and stepdad had offered to take him to the RSPCA. Well, she went off on one saying I was being nasty and out of order, that it was all my fault that it was DD's fault etc etc.

I just said look, I don't really feel as if I have a choice, i need out get him out asap, need to protect DD and that if I have no other option then he will go to a home. She really didnt like that, and denying things that shes said in the past, that im nasty because ive upset her by saying id take him somewhere that woudl potentially kill him. More the tone of what she was saying tbh. arghhhh I dont know.

Have now arranged for him to be taken back to her on friday morning, but do you think I should just take him to a rescue anyway? Will I need to ring them first or can we just turn up with him?

She'll be upset about the animal shelter cos the RSPCA wont really work with an "agressive" animal. They'll just put him to sleep. He/She's (sorry can't remember) way to young to just be put down - its something that can be taught out of the pup with the right knowledge.

You can't really just take (unless its the RPSCA or dogs trust) but if you ring a few local ones then there will prob be one who can find a space for pup.

"You're saying your are willing to train the puppy but you're not. I understand why you're not but to say you are is just wrong. If you were you'd have a behaviourist/trainer in there now."

Again, disagree, if you read my posts, you will see all the things I have done training wise to try and stop his aggressive behaviour - how is that "not willing to train him"?! What I'm saying is I have done all the training I am capable of doing re the aggression by myself. Yes, I could get a behaviourist/trainer in to help, but since he hurt my DD, I honestly don't want him anymore!! He hurt my baby, I don't want something in my house that hurt my baby, im sure you can understand that?!

So yes, actually, i have been willing to train him, and have spent several weeks doing so! what I am nt prepared to do, is keep him any longer, and in the time it takes to get a professional in to help, he hurts my DD even worse than last time. I'm not willing to take that risk.

I'm not gonna argue with you cos the puppy is going anyway and its pointless.

If you read again how I worded it you'll see what I mean.

Good luck with finding the puppy a new home.

will ring some local rescues and dogs trust in the morning I think.

CB - I might be stating the obvious here (I hope not) but - taking you at your word about the dog being aggressive - you really must keep your dd and this dog separate. you're the adult human and you can put in place a very easy way to ensure that he doesn't hurt her again - keep them separate. until you get rid.

oh yes - hope that is stating the obvious. Do keep them seperate if its that dangerous.

yes salem - I meant - I hope so, not, I hope not. derr.

Dya know what I didn't even notice the mistake. Just read it as I thought it should be written! lol.

no wonder the breeder is a slightly peed off, she is having to come out of her way and pick him up, you initially wanted your money back. dogs arent like damaged goods you can just take back for a refund, and she realises that if you take him to the RSPCA he will more than likely be put down because your saying he is aggressive. fact is you want rid and dont want advice. fine. dont ask.

i think the breeder is being the reasonable one out of the two of you here. if she wants him back let her have him back. she is at least being responsible in taking the dog back, can i ask how you managed to pick him up in the first place with no transport?

maybe I was a little naive, in hindsight, though as already stated, i did lots of research, reald lots of books had lots of talk with professionals and experenced owners, thought about it for months and months before i actually got a puppy. I particularly looked at information on raising a puppy with a young child in the house and by the time we got him, i felt suitably prepared, having also bombarded the breeder with text, emails and calls out the pups and their mum.

However, i now realise that no matter how much research you do, nothing prepares you for the reality, or for when things go wrong. I was fully prepared however for the responsibility and the commitment it would take to look after a puppy however.

Unfortunately i dont have the means to be able to take him to a rescue tomorrow, the earliest i can get him anywhere is thurs/friday.

Hatwoman - yes, unfortunately for the puppy, I have been keeping him in his crate most of the time when my DD is around (most of the time!) Letting him out to go to the toilet every hour, and keeping him fed an watered. It is by no means ideal but like you say, I need to keep them separated, and crating him has been the only way to do this.

13 week old aggresive

CB - If you have no other means then this is the best thing to do but by keeping the puppy in the crate you are damaging his social learning and he will become more and more aggresive.
Can he not be allowed to roam the kitchen/bedoom/bathroom if must so that he's not shut in a little crate.

As you say no amount of research will help you as you have a "canine" aspect that research can't help you with. If I were you and you were going to get another dog - get an older trained dog from a rescue. My DD is 2 and she gets on with our pup like a house on fire and even had hold of her lip today cos she wanted the rope toy dog had but we were lucky having this puppy, not all dogs are the same.
Get an older one that has a proven experience with kids/cats (pup came here with no history of cats but luckily luvs them) and has basic training under its belt.

If you can't get to a rescue tomorrow then do give them all a ring and see if they can come pick up - a crate is gonna make puppy worse.

vicar, she actually offered to come and get him but said it wouldnt be unitl she found a new home for her puppy, which could be anything up to 2 weeks, and its not fair on the dog or my DD to keep him here for that long when he's not wanted! With regards to taking him to a rescue, I'm only going by what other posters here have advised me to do.

I personally have no transport, but family members who have, took me there, but it was arranged in advance so they had no other commitments and were available. at such short notice, they are not available unitl thurs/fiday morning.

I would normally ask my friend to take us over there, but seeing as she is currently in australia until the end of the month, its a little out of her way.

And i dont recall any advice on how to deal with his behaviour so dont tell me not to ask when i never did in the first place. I asked a simple yes or no question which has tuned into a grilling about the rights and wrongs of my decison to get a puupy in the first place. It is not your place to judge my decision, I did it, its done, it hasnt worked out, so now im trying to do the best by the puppy and my DD.

let the breeder take him back. its the least you can do. not that id ever, ever breed my dogs but id be spitting blood if i said id have a dog back and then found out you;d sent it to an animal shelter. and let her take him soon. keeping a puppy crated all the time is not good at all.

nothing your saying washes with me im afraid. you made a mistake and instead of simply admitting it your blaming the pup, so do the dog a favour, let the breeder take it back asap.

he is not allowed upstairs - and frankly, I dont want him roaming around mine or DD's bedrooms!! the kithchen is where his crate is, it is a kitchen diner, there is no door through to the hall but a stairgate, which he can currently crawl under, so it wouldnt keep him contained, and my DD is in and out of there all day so it wouldnt really keep them separate at all iyswim? downstairs the only other room is the lounge, which is where we spend most of our time so cant keep him in here, the crate is really the only option im afraid. Like I said, I know its not ideal, and probably not helping him at all, but at the moment, my first concerns are for DD.

if you don't believe me vicar, thats you perogative. Yes i made a mistake, i HAVE already admitted that, but it is not my fault the puppy is so aggressive towards my DD. I've never been in this situation before so I'm just trying to do the right thing.

This is very difficult for me so i could do without your criticisms when you dont even know me thankyou very much!

no scratch that then - if she really cant get him for a few weeks then do your best to rehome him at a reputable shelter, but be honest about your reasons for rehoming the dog, dont just say its agressive if its just being a normal puppy, which it does sound like it is tbh. you dont sound like you knew what you were letting yourself in for.
i get pissed with people doing this because people like me end up picking up the pieces and rehoming unwanted animals.

Just a thought - how secure is your garden? can you put something over the crate in case it rains and he can use it as a kennel? Bring him back in, in the evening?

I'd get him rehomed ASAP if you really can't. I understand your DD is the first priority as it should be, but I'm afraid (as I dont have your DD) my priority is puppy and its really praying on my mind imagining the poor thing stuck in a cage all day.

Do you have friends/family who can keep puppy for a couple of days while you find somewhere for it to go.
If you've already arranged for the breeder to come pick him up then you need to continue with that arrangement really as its not fair to be asking her to come pick him up and then saying he's gone sorry.
I originally thought you'd be delivering puppy to breeder again.

and for the last time, the dog is not the victim here, my DD is! Yes he is only 13 weeks old but he is bloody aggressive, and he HURT my child! am i so wrong in wanting to take that danger out of my house?!

I'm assuming she's coming this friday? If its any later than that (and thats too late really) then you need to get the puppy out sooner. It cant be left caged for ANY longer than that.