Am I entitled to my money back for a puppy I can't keep?

[cordonbleugh]

basically, I have a puppy I can't keep, he is 13 weeks old, and has done exeptionally well with training etc, knows quite a few commands already, is very clever etc, apart from one issue - the biting, it's not just normal biting and rough play, but is actually very agressive.

Before you say anything, I have tried EVERYTHING to train him out of this, no techniques work, and when his agression is directed at my 3yo DD, I just cant take the risk that he will grow out of it.

It's not fair on her, DD can't be a normal 3yo, do anything she norally does for fear of getting attacked!

So, the breeder has agreed to have him back, but says she has no money to refund to me!

I'm assuming that she used the money for the sale of the puppies to pay off a large debt, because 8 puppies at £250 each is a lot of money!!

He is not purebred by the way, so he is not kennel club registered or anything like that.

I have asked her to have him back asap, otherwise he will go to dogs trust or somewhere similar, but now she is getting a bit nasty towards me (via text!) about the whole situation.

I made a mistake in getting the puppy and fully admit to that, now i just want him gone before he hurts DD again. I did a LOT of research, and waited months before getting him btw, so it was definately not and impulse decision, it just hasn't worked out

Anyone got any advice?

That's ok OP, poor dog hope his next home has the time and love a puppy needs

Jeez I've just seen that a poster has suggested Birmingham Dogs Home. With respect PLEASE don't contact them - they are a POUND and the dog will stand no chance. I speak with experience as a rescuer.

I agree totally with LuckySalem re crating the dog. Again I speak with experience. Abridged explanation -I fostered a young pup with a shitty attitude towards the child in the home. He was put in a crate by the owner which made him far worse yet within a week of taking him into my home I had trained him out of his aggressive behaviour (I have 2 DDs, one the same age as the child in question) and subsequently found him a great home where he is 18 months later still doing brilliantly, perfectly well behaved and much loved. As it happens, I got a kind remark about my dog rescuing just this evening from the owner on my FB page.

Re the breeder - I may be being "judgey" but it sounds like she isn't too trustworthy. I'd opt for rescue over her any day. That said and to be fair my own Facebook page says that I am 15 years younger than I am - I gave a false age to prevent being cyber-stalked by people as I both have a dodgy family member who has done so and don't care to reveal too much to others given my work in rescue can cause me to come across some pretty nasty people. The breeder could have given a dodgy age because of similar types of concern.

I will be honest - yes I am cross with you that you aren't turning to a behaviouralist, just as others here are. Thats what I would do, come what may. However, you've made your decision and thats the end of the matter. The important thing now is to find a suitable and safe place for the dog which I am in no doubt that you want to do and for that I have the greatest respect. On that note, the dog is YOURS and unless you have signed to say you'll return him to the breeder if things don't work out you are under no obligation to. TBH even if you had but consider this not in the dog's interest she would have a hard job fighting your decision to refer to rescue instead. The "return to us" clause is in many rescue's policies but they admit that they would be in a difficult position if they tried to enforce it with an unwilling owner. So far no such case has come to court to my knowledge.

Finally, Black Retriever Dog Rescue may be able to help you. they occasionally take other colours/breed mixes and I personally know them to be reputable as I have worked with them.

Cordonbleugh - I am not going to get drawn into a fight here with the other posters but just want to say having read the whole thread, that I do wholeheartedly support you.

CB, I believe you. Some dogs just do not get on well with children and have an aggressive streak - rather like a few humans really. These are often one person dogs. My grandfather was a farmer and had a number of working dogs. Some were allowed in the house and were very much family pets but 'his' dog wasn't, as he would nip, growl and corner nearly everyone else; he lived outside in the barn. Excellent sheep dog though. The breed in this case doesn't matter but the potential size he'll grow to and the damage he can do, does. Your DD's fear of him and the constant vigilance for ever more when they were in the house together does not = good family pet.

Find a rehoming centre with a do not destroy policy.

yes sunshine, i too hope he finds a new home where he is loved and cared for. He WAS loved and cared for in my home, up until the point where he hurt my child - a point that you seem to be completely dismissing as if it means nothing at all.

re crating him, he actually seems to be calmer when i take him out than more aggressive, but i wholeheartedly agree that it is not nice for him at all, yet, i have made the decision to put my DD's needs first.

I know the ideal thing to do would be to get a behaviourist in to help, but im beyond the point where i WANT to help him iyswim? i think that even with professional help, it will take a while to sort things out, leaving DD at risk in the meantime.

I have actually been to birmingham dogs home, and i was almost in tears when i came out, it is an awful place! He will def not be going there, i can assure you. I think i will take him to the nearest dogs trust, which is in kenilworth, i have been there myself, as i originally was going to rescue a dog, so i know they dont just give any dog to any person, they have strict procedure, do home checks etc. I will ring them tomorrow.

I have the utmost respect for people who put months of effort into rehabilitating dogs, it seems i am not cut out to do that, which is a shame.

Oh, and thanks fimbo

THANK YOU CB for your support of my comment and for giving personal experience of Birmingham Dogs Home.

Thinking about it, if you are in that area another of my contacts is a lady who runs the foster-home based Birmingham area rescue called Dogwatch. I have a nasty feeling that she's poorly at the mo as I haven't heard from her in a while but I can get her colleague's details if you'd like me to. Dogwatch are no-kill and very decent people and although there's no guarantee that they have spaces in order to help I'll most certainly try if thats acceptable to you.

If so please contact me at [email protected] - this is a disposable email address for the purpose of posting on forums like this where my usual one would be at risk of spammers (and thus the email header is in a man's made up name although I assure you I'm a mum!). If you email me there I'll give you my phone number and usual email address and do my best to help. If you would feel safer of course you too can set up a disposable Hotmail email address just for the purpose of contacting me.

Of course if you'd rather no there is no offence taken.

Beggar! I meant "Of course if you'd rather not there is no offence taken".

Hi i agree that its the right thing re: rehoming the puppy to make sure your dd is no longer at risk and i totaaly get all the ins and outs of you have tried the training and it hasn't worked ect ect. If i was in your position i would be looking to rehome the pup asap also but what i do not agree with is kepping him couped up in a crate (whether extra large or not) he is still couped up and that is no way to treat the poor little thing. 'Poor little thing you may say, he attacked my dd ffs' but like others have said put him in the garden and block the catflap or put him in another room and shut the door so he can't get out. I do not disbelieve you that he did hurt your dd and it must be horrible for her to be scared of the dog in her own home but the puppy is only 13 weeks old so yes if he was a fully grown dog then you may get more words of support and less sympathy for the dog which you clearly resent him getting BUT he is a 13 week old puppy and anything he is put through now will shape him as an adult dog and what on earth is being kept in a cage and being unloved going to do for him!!??? I am glad your dd will be safe really i am and am not flaming you for the decision to rehome him BUT i really do hope the poor thing finds somebody who will be able to love him and not keep him locked up. THIS IS CRUEL. I am sorry but thats just how i feel about a poor 13 week old puppy. Please don't tell me i shouldn't.
Good luck with the rehoming anyway and i do hope that you do wait until your dd is allot older before getting another as you said earlier.

Have emailed you vall, will be going to bed soon though.

Yes, birmingham dogs home, where do i start?! They actually have a security guard fgs! The staff walk around looking like prison guards, which i suppose they are actually! They are not in the least bit friendly or approachable.

The kennels are on multi levels, no outside space, slap bang in the middle of the city. There are some huge dogs in very cramped kennels, hundreds and hundreds of dogs that are going stir crazy in there It didnt look like they were well looked after at all tbh.

totally agree redsofas, keeping him locked up IS cruel......which is why i am trying to keep his time in his crate to a minimum. BUT there are times when i simply have no choice.

I honestly did love him to bits before the incident, and it breaks my heart to have to do this, i didnt think i was capable of going from love to hate in a split second, but that is ultimately what happened.

I am not taking him back to the breeder, she can give me all the shit she likes, i feel i am making the right decision in giving him to a rescue where he can be properly assessed, and given to a new family who are properly matched to the dog.

please dont think I'm a cold hearted bitch, hes sat at my feet right now, being a really good boy, we had a great game of fetch earlier, and a lovely walk this morning. But as soon as my DD is around, he turns into a monster. I may be being PFB about it, but she really is all i have got, and i would never forgive myself if any harm came to her due to my decision to keep him.

CB if it helps I don't think you're a cold hearted bitch. I see plenty of those in the work I do and when I come across them believe me I tell them so.

I do accept that you are doing your best to find the right home for your dog and that you have concluded that yours is not that home and I hope that you will be able to resolve the dilemma in a way which makes you, your family and the puppy safe and happy.

I have just read through this whole thread and must say that CB I think you have been very unfairly vilified by many.

You have been totally honest and sincere in trying to rectify an unfortunate situation that was largely unforseen. I do believe you when you say he was aggressive - you are no fool, and yes, of course you have to put your dd first.

It has been a stressful fime all round and I'm sure it will be resolved in the best interests of all concerned.

You were brave to post considering how emotive and reactionary a significant number of the responses were.

Gosh, mistakes happen !

unforeseen even

i agree with sootyfox, I think CB, you have 'defended' yourself and your decision well.

A puppy IS hard work, and maybe he will have the best upbringing where he can have more time dedicated to his particular behaviour.

We had a collieXspringer when i was a teen, and she was a complete arse of a dog!! So many time mum got to the end of her tether with her. She turned into a wonderful girl tho!!

CB - if you're in the West Mids area (haven't read all of the thread) - consider trying here for re-homing. We got our first dog from Wythall 20 years ago; it's a great place, loads of acreage so the dogs have a really good life whilst waiting to be rehomed. The dog that we got had been handed in by her previous owners, so I'm sure they're used to this scenario. Good luck.
Wythall Animal Sanctuary

You're all going to think I'm mad but I'm going to speak up in favour of Birmingham Dogs Home.

Of course dogs shouldn't be kept like that. But they are - up and down the country, in rescues as well as pounds. And the reason they are is that there are so many unwanted dogs and so little money to care for them.

I don't know but I would guess the reason Birmingham have a security guard is that dogs get stolen, especially for dog fighting and the like, and they would be a very easy target if they didn't have security.

Maybe the staff aren't very happy or friendly - but maybe we'd all get demoralised if we had to work in a place like that to pay our bills and feed our families.

So, until there's enough money out there to keep every single stray and unwanted dog in ideal conditions, let's get off our high horses, shall we? The country's over-run with unwanted dogs, so they live in crap conditions or are put to sleep. That's the truth.

Apologies for hijack, CB

I've just read this thread and completely support CBs decision to rehome the dog. Of course she has a responsibility to ensure the dog is cared for, but she has a far greater responsibility to protect her young daughter, regardless of the circumstances. The way some people are reacting you'd think she was getting rid of the dog because her daughter had gone off the colour brown or something, not because it bit her on the face.

FWIW, puppies do have very sharp little teeth and IME cuts on lips do bleed in a manner that is designed to cause maximum terror to mothers, but still - is it really worth the constant worry that the dog is going to harm her daughter, purely for the sake of having it live with them, when it could live somewhere else just as happily?

Not so sure about keeping the dog in a cage so that DD can have full run of the house, but it seems that isn't really as bad as it sounded if she lets him out often. Anyway, good luck!

CB, I took the liberty of ringing Labrador Welfare. They will be able to help you (I did tell them he was 3/4 lab). They work very similary to the Breed Welfare that I help with. Someone will come to see the dog and assess him (not you, purely the pup). They will then match him with a home that is waiting and has already been home checked etc. She did also confirm what I said ealier that they would not be able to take him straight away as they have no kennel facilities and it would be more likely that you would have to have him for a further week maybe 2. I have just had a call to go and assess a dog that wants a home. I won't be able to go until after the weekend and as all of these clubs rely on volunteers like we do it can't be helped. Is there no one that would be able to have him in the very short term? If you want the phone number let me know or you are welcome to CAT me.

Nice one Wags.

Following last nights email to me from CB and my reply to her I too put out a call to all my contacts in rescue and animal rights.

So far I've had well over a dozen offers of no-kill rescue places, a couple of offers to foster the pup, a very possible wonderful home offer with someone already known to rescue AND offers of transport to get the pup from CB to where/whoever she decides she prefers.

I'm now waiting for a reply or phone call from CB to tell me what she wants me to do (or, as I have just seen Wags' post, whether she has opted to take her offer up instead).

CB whatever you do, if you're reading this, please make sure that if you opt for rescue it is no-kill UNLESS in the case of suffering beyond help. I'd hate for your pup to go into rescue only to be put to sleep and would never forgive myself if I was partly to blame by not urging you to check rescue policy very carefully.

NB thats why I don't have time or respect for Birmingham Dogs Home - its not a dogs home or a rescue, its a bloody council pound and they kill perfectly healthy dogs.

Good news for the pup - hope he gets a new home sorted soon.

Vallhala - yes, we know they put healthy dogs down. Nobody likes the idea of that but tbh you make it sound like they do it for fun. They do it because there isn't the money or the resources to care for the stray, unwanted and abandoned dogs that they have to take in week after week. If there are no-kill rescue places available for all the dogs in pounds then why aren't the dogs in the rescues?

How long have you got for the answers Bella?!

Lack of cooperation from pound staff, lies and false reassurances that a dog will be kept until rescue can collect him, over-bidding on council tenders to take in strays, thus accepting more than they can realistically deal with, indifference (yes, I see that often in pound staff, although not in ALL)..... I could go on. Swindon's dog warden is great and thus the staff very cooperative to rescue, Joan at Hartlepool's pound now super too.... but Dundalk in Ireland are bastards, Manchesters a disgrace to humanity. Thats how it goes.

I didn't say whether or not there are no-kill rescue places available for all dogs because I can't, its impossible to speak on a situation whih changes minute by minute. I AM saying that I despise those who kill healthy animals, I depise those who take strays in for money and as soon as that runs out after 7 days they kill them and open the door for the next bunch of doomed souls.

I said that the OP should NOT take the pup to Birmingham Dogs Home because it is, I repeat, a POUND and not a dogs home and he would be at serious risk of being killed. Fact.

I'm also saying that its my lifes work to get such dogs out of pounds and I speak from heartbreaking, soul-destroying experience.

CB, I have also got some more contact names and numbers and someone else who may have contacts in the Midlands. Please e-mail me if you can. I don't want to post the number here as it was sent to me in a closed forum mail, so I don't feel I can post it here.

They have recommended the Dog Trust as well, any of you know more about them?