A cyclist ran over our puppy today!

[releasethehounds]

Our border collie puppy is nearly 5 months old. She has a lovely nature, v affectionate etc but has a few bad habits. We've had border collies before so we're aware of their instincts, but this one is proving more challenging than the previous ones!

The worst problem is she is obsessed with cars, bikes, scooters etc so this makes taking her for walks difficult. We have taught her some basic commands (sit, come here etc) and we're now at the stage of letting her go off the lead in very quiet areas well away from roads.

Today we took her to the local disused railway walk which is v quiet during the week except for the occasional dog walker and cyclist. We were completely alone and well away from the road so we decided to let her off her lead (we take treats with us to call her back). After about 20 mins a cyclist came along from behind us. I called the dog to come to me, but when she saw the bike she could only focus on that and I couldn't get her onto the lead. The cyclist slowed down a little and DH called out to him to "please stop, she's only a pup", but the cyclist just ran right over her middle! DH & I just stood in shock - the cyclist looked round and said "is it ok?" then just cycled off - he didn't even stop to check. Luckily she seems fine and she's running around the garden as normal tonight.

Whilst I'm angry that the cyclist didn't stop (I'm also a keen cyclist and I always stop if I come across dogs and children) I'm also exasperated with the dog and myself as I don't feel we can confidently give her a decent walk anywhere safely.

Any advice anyone please?

It is a game to her that she has decided she likes, it speaks to her instincts. The key is to get the timing right, if you act the second she looks (before she really fixates) then it should be relativly easy to distract her. If you wait a second to be sure that she is going to react it will be too late.

The discs should work as this will be the first behaviour you have used them for so it will be new and fully effective on him - just make sure you really get the conditioning in, work on it for a few days to be sure.

Just don't get frustrated with it, patience and consistant repetition work best. If you get the timing wrong once don't worry, just write it off and try again next time, don't feel faliure or anger.

'Just don't get frustrated with it, patience and consistant repetition work best. If you get the timing wrong once don't worry, just write it off and try again next time, don't feel faliure or anger'.

An appropriate motto for life, methinks

I have to say I am a life-long dog owner and I agree with gumbo. You should have had much better control of your pup. It is your responsibility to make sure she doesn't get in front of traffic of any sort. Dogs should not be walked without a lead until you can recall them effectively.

It sounds thankfully as if pup has had a lucky escape. Hopefully she (and you) will be a bit more cautious around bikes in future! Have you considered doing some obedience classes, which would prevent this sort of thing happening again. God forbid she became transfixed by a car or a toddler and lunged at them...

We also have a Border Collie (18mths) , he has strong herding/ chasing instincts.

Firstly with regards to the pulling, we tried everything to stop it, and found the only thing that worked was using a Halti. He hates it with a passion, and spends about 20 mins rubbing his nose along the carpet , after having it removed, lol.

When we first used it he had it on for the whole walk , but we've gradually lessened the amount of time he wears it so now we have found though if we use it for the first 10-20 mins of him being out for his walk , we then take it off and he walks the same as if he had it on.

We aim to lessen this even more so eventually he won't need it at all.

Secondly, we also have an old disused railway cutting, where he goes for the majority of his daily runs. Its a bridleway, and footpath , which cyclists also use.

Like yours it's usually quieter during the week. Oscar also isn't great at recall-the railway cutting has steep sides and he enjoys climbing .

We only let him off , if we're sure no ones about, but obviously it not ideal, and he has to wait till we get further down to fields to be let off.

Would the training disc's work for Oscar too? He's a great obedient dog on the whole, it's just small areas that need some extra work.

If they would work where do I buy them?

my border collie pup is now nearly 7 months old and we have started using a gentle leader when we take her for walks. This means that even the children don't struggle with her!

Her recall so far has been amazing.... when we get almost home (2 houses away), I let her off her lead and tell her to "go home". She always runs staright up the driveway. One day, (about a month ago), a cyclist went past just as I let her off. She looked at the cyclist and I called her at the same time and she just trotted up the driveway with me instead of chasing the bike. I was very pleased - obviously!

She is a very clever little girl.

Moonmother, I am not sure how you would use the discs with a recall issue, ie where he won't come back once he has gone - Hounds dog has the opposite problem ie he is going when he shouldn't rather than staying away when he shouldn't IYSWIM.

WRT the halti, when you take it off and he rubs - stop him! What it is doing is letting him continue the fixation with it, he is making it a big thing in his mind, rather like a child who continues to scream about having to wear a rain hat long after it has been taken off IYSWIM. Distract him any way you can. The discs would work really well for that kind of behaviour and it should help him to accept the halti better when it is on too.

Dogs are supposed to be much more intelligent than horses, we expect a horse to learn to wear a headcollar without complaint yet we have a problem expecting a dog to learn the same. They can, will and do accept them so raise your expectations of him

With recall, I would start playing recall games with him, make it fun for him to find you, get the dc involved. Hide behind things and each take turns at calling him (in the super silly, happy way described above) when he finds you you take his collar and then he gets a huge fuss and a food treat before the next person calls him. As he gets quicker at it make him sit before you take his collr and give the treat - the important bit is that you take control of him before he gets the treat.

I ordered my discs online, just google training discs, I think mine were about £5 inc postage.

Blinder, haveing just completed the first set of training classes I can tell you that they alone do not teach you everything you need to stop a dog who is fixated on bikes or cars etc. It takes more than just basic training and, whilst I agree a dog needs to be under control, I do not think it is too much to ask a bike rider to behave consideratly of a puppy, dogs are animals and, as such, are not totally predicatble. Again, with horses, car drivers are expected to slow down, give room and generally take basic precautions and give respect. Why should a dog (which is just as, if not more dangerous) be treated with less respect?

Kingcanute, my point was mainly that it is dangerous for the DOG. I wouldn't compromise on that. I have a lurcher (chasing instinct, bloody fast) and yes it takes work, consistent effort and sometimes extra training. But the dog's safety is worth it IMO.

I agree with that, it is certainly best for the dog if they are properly trained but at 5 months old I think it is asking a lot to expect them not to get in front of the odd bike. Sometimes they get the better of you and they do try it on, even when they are properly trained - especially at this age!

Yes of course accidents happen while pups are learning. My pup ran under the legs of a runner last year and thankfully neither she nor the runner was hurt.

But it never crossed my mind to blame the runner - it was my fault pure and simple!

aww your poor pup

glad they are ok

Blinder - did the runner see your pup coming? Did you ask them to stop? That's what the OP did, and when she originally posted she was clearly quite shaken by it all.

Can we just stop flaming the OP and maybe move on to a sensible discussion on discs etc?

Or did I wander into AIBU by mistake

Well the runner saw her, but puppies don't move very predicatably and she stumbled over her. To be honest, it can be just as dangerous to stop suddenly or try to swerve to avoid a wriggly puppy as to just carry on and hope for the best. Dogs are more likely to get out of the way than you are to avoid them. Have you ever tried to catch a puppy?

I'm really not trying to flame the OP but it is her responsibility to keep her dog under control with a lead if not with training. It's not the cyclists responsibility or fault.

OP while you are training, keep the dog on a lead where there are bikes. There are lots and lots of methods to break fixation. Repeated, early distraction (on a lead) as the bike passes should do it soon enough IF you practice diligently, calmly and daily. There are lots of books and schools that can teach you further techniques. But it may be that her brush with a bike will mean she avoids them altogether from now on.

A final warning though - don't become anxious YOURSELF when you see a bike as this may transmit anxiety to her. Just calmly do something else when you see one (squeak a ball, give a treat in the opposite direction, attract attention elsewhere). Soon she will see them as part of the furniture.

sure if a cyclist had tried to run over our monster dog when was a 5mth puppy, then would have prob punctured their tyres

not helpful i know

I recommend you take yourself to AIBU and vent your spleen there, Blinder

...because if you read the rest of the thread you'll see some of us are actually trying to help the OP control her puppy better - as she wants [shcok]

Hi again folks - thanks for your replies and (Bella particularly) your support - I really appreciate it. BTW I wasn't actually blaming the cyclist for the accident, but I was angry that he didn't stop although we asked him to, and he didn't stop afterwards either just to check the puppy was ok. I know there is some blame on my side and I don't dispute that - I want to make taking my dog for a walk the pleasure it is meant to be and that's why I posted.

I'm still struggling to find a safe place to walk her where I can take her off the lead, but not much success so far, though I have found an enclosed field nearby, but even then it has two gates either side that a puppy can fit through! So for now, it's walks on the lead.

Blinder - unfortunately the pup has not been put off bikes. I am continuing to use distraction techniques (just in the garden really with the kids riding their bikes/scooters). The pup is still chasing but less so now, as each time she lunges I clap my hands and say 'leave it' and call her to me where I'm ready to throw the ball for her. A little progress so far, but I may try the training discs next, as recommended by the wonderful King Canute.

Whilst I'm walking her on the lead and a car/bike passes I make her sit and I hold onto her collar firmly saying 'leave it'. If she doesn't struggle to chase the car/bike I reward her with verbal praise and a treat.

I'll let you know if any of this starts to pay off

Thanks Mutt - do you now feel safe taking your dog for walks off the lead, as you mentioned she's only fairly reliable?

Dont think you read my post Bella.

releasethehounds - that sounds really positive. It's probably a good thing that she is still nice and confident.

Cesar Milan gives a nice tip that the dog must 'submit' to the distraction i.e. become calmly passive to it. So you'll know when to praise by the relaxed shoulders and gaze, with no panting or straining to look at it (prey drive). It's this timing that is crucial apparently. If she is still fighting you to look at the bike, just wait firmly and kindly until she surrenders. As soon as she relaxes, reinforce this behaviour with your voice or treats or whatever you usually use. A couple of times of this should show her exactly what peaceful mood you want around bikes, which she can then happily obey.

By the way, I really was directing my replies to all the other posters arguing with me about the cyclist, not at you OP. I'm glad it's going well and that pup is over her shock.

Seconding the comment that she is a baby - reliability for a collie (gorgeous clever swines) doesn't really come until 2 years+ but it's worth it!

Thanks again for the encouraging words!

Do keep us posted, RTH

Would love to hear how you get on Hounds, good luck