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Original poster

A cyclist ran over our puppy today!

74 replies

releasethehounds · 13/07/2009 21:17

Our border collie puppy is nearly 5 months old. She has a lovely nature, v affectionate etc but has a few bad habits. We've had border collies before so we're aware of their instincts, but this one is proving more challenging than the previous ones!

The worst problem is she is obsessed with cars, bikes, scooters etc so this makes taking her for walks difficult. We have taught her some basic commands (sit, come here etc) and we're now at the stage of letting her go off the lead in very quiet areas well away from roads.

Today we took her to the local disused railway walk which is v quiet during the week except for the occasional dog walker and cyclist. We were completely alone and well away from the road so we decided to let her off her lead (we take treats with us to call her back). After about 20 mins a cyclist came along from behind us. I called the dog to come to me, but when she saw the bike she could only focus on that and I couldn't get her onto the lead. The cyclist slowed down a little and DH called out to him to "please stop, she's only a pup", but the cyclist just ran right over her middle! DH & I just stood in shock - the cyclist looked round and said "is it ok?" then just cycled off - he didn't even stop to check. Luckily she seems fine and she's running around the garden as normal tonight.

Whilst I'm angry that the cyclist didn't stop (I'm also a keen cyclist and I always stop if I come across dogs and children) I'm also exasperated with the dog and myself as I don't feel we can confidently give her a decent walk anywhere safely.

Any advice anyone please?

OP posts:

ShauntheSheep · 14/07/2009 11:49

I agree with Gumbo and Fimbo I'm afraid and I def would not have stopped either if I was on my own. Have met WAY too aggresive dog owners who think that their dogs are more important than humans and have not trained their dogs to leave cyclists alone. I have been knocked off my bike , snapped at, jumped at and chased by dogs and threatened and abused by their owner and quite frankly its horrible. I only ever use paths that are for cyclists and dont think I should have to deal with dogs that are untrained any more than I should if I was walking. If a dog cant cope with cyclists then it should not be off the lead anywhere that cyclists are allowed.

Pyrocanthus · 14/07/2009 12:49

I have sympathy with Gumbo's perspective as I've had a similar accident with an alsatian running in front of me on a cycle path, though with far less serious consequences. The dog was fine, and seemed more embarrassed than its owner.

Had I been the cyclist you described in your OP, I'd certainly have stopped my bike and waited for you to get your dog under control and would never, ever have hurt it deliberately, but ultimately it's your responsibility.

Hope your dog is OK.

Original poster

releasethehounds · 14/07/2009 12:51

I appreciate all your posts - our puppy seems absolutely fine this morning - thanks for everyone's concern.

Thanks too for the flip side opinion. TBH I cycle too and have come across plenty of inconsiderate dog owners. However, this was not a cycle path and the railway line is v straight and open - the cyclist had plenty of time to slow down and even stop. Like I mentioned before I love to cycle and I always stop for dogs/children/whatever obstacle I come across. It's not difficult to do that on a straight open stretch, and like others have mentioned, it can also be dangerous for the cyclist not to stop.

The other thing that's difficult is knowing when is the right time to start trusting your dog. Right now I'm very cautious and now even more so.

I hope others don't find me to be an irresponsible dog owner - we are training ours on a daily basis.

OP posts:

morningpaper · 14/07/2009 12:56

I also agree with Gumbo - I would never stop for a dog! It might go for me. You also said that your DH was furious and it was lucky he didn't catch up with the cyclist - there is no way I would stay adn fid out what your DH or dog would do to me in the middle of nowhere!

I think if your dog isn't going to avoid bikes then unfortunately you are going to need to stick to fields etc. You're not irresponsible - just learning about your dog.

Bella21 · 14/07/2009 13:48

I agree with MP - you're not irresponsible but you can't expect a 5 month old pup to be under your control off lead. I reckon you've learned that now

That said, it sounds like the cyclist had plenty of opportunity to stop and you called out a warning which he ignored. I think that's wrong too.

I always get my dogs out of the way and sometimes on leads when cyclists are coming, but I can see both sides really. It is the same with horses and cars, and a little consideration on both sides goes a long way. Going ahead and mowing people/horses/dogs down doesn't help anyone.

Original poster

releasethehounds · 14/07/2009 14:25

You're right - we are learning about our dog. Our last collie was one of those v obedient dogs that other dog owners envy - 100% reliable - she died in January aged 16. I knew at the time she would be a hard act to follow!

Morning paper - our dog's a puppy and not at all aggressive - if she was I wouldn't ever let her off the lead. My DD1 is v nervous of other dogs so I can respect that. Also, DH was indeed angry at the time but he wouldn't be violent either (or I wouldn't have married him). There's no place for aggression in our house - that's why we choose good-natured dogs.

Bella - I couldn't agree more. I wish people in general would have a little consideration. I know our pup was a nuisance to the cyclist, but to run her over ...

OP posts:

Bella21 · 14/07/2009 14:29

Yup, I know. I find it very hard to understand the 'get out of my way' mindset a lot of people seem to have. I reckon if you have that much pent up aggro you are heading for a heart attack or a stomach ulcer, or both, and you really need to get yourself a furry to lower your blood pressure

Pyrocanthus · 14/07/2009 14:32

Seems a bit unfair on the furry.

Bella21 · 14/07/2009 14:35

Original poster

releasethehounds · 14/07/2009 14:36

I wish our furry would lower my blood pressure! I've never felt so stressed-out. I think we may get a halti, but we've never used one before so that's a new experience. We've had a little progress already with the pulling - I just stop when she pulls on the lead too much and only start again when she walks properly. Seems to be working, but I'm damn sure it won't work with any bikes/cars around.

OP posts:

Original poster

releasethehounds · 14/07/2009 14:40

As an aside on the 'get out of my way' mindset, my Dad has recently started using one of those mobility scooters. I went out with him and because a few people had to wait approx 5 seconds to let him past an awkward bit of pavement, you should have seen the looks and rude comments they made!

Not sure I would have the patience to cope with other people if I had a disabled child.

OP posts:

OrmIrian · 14/07/2009 14:58

"I think if your dog isn't going to avoid bikes then unfortunately you are going to need to stick to fields etc. "

Does the same apply to small children too? It's a footpath and people are supposed to be able to walk without worrying about traffic. Should you keep a child on reins or keep to the fields because cyclist don't want to have to stop?

scribblehead · 14/07/2009 15:08

I seem to be in an argumentative mood today,( too much sugar at legoland this morning!?), but I'm with Gumbo. I am a cyclist and I always try to be polite and sensible. I have also been nearly knocked off my bike by dogs and bitten once. I have also had my buggy bitten by a dog. The dog owners tried to laugh it off with a 'oh buggys drive him crazy'! hrmph!

scribblehead · 14/07/2009 15:14

I'm rubbish at this. Way too slow at typing!

RubberDuck · 14/07/2009 15:23

I'm a cyclist and I always slow right down for dogs and small children - they are so unpredictable and it's not their fault. I am very aware that both they and I could end up seriously injured if we collided.

I don't, however, always sound my bell if coming up to pedestrians from behind if there's space to manoeuvre past at a sensible pace. And even if there isn't, I prefer to slow down until they notice me/am close enough to say "excuse me, may I get past" rather than ring my bell (rightly or wrongly, I feel a bell is a bit officious/rude? Dunno - do pedestrians prefer to hear the bell - ime ringing it gets people a little panicky and unpredictable in getting out the way as opposed to just asking nicely while at a much reduced speed)

RubberDuck · 14/07/2009 15:24

(Maybe I've just been lucky - despite regularly riding in a popular dog walking area, I've never had any issues with unfriendly or badly behaved dogs though)

Bella21 · 14/07/2009 15:26

Releasethehounds - have you tried training discs? They're really good for stopping unwanted behaviour? (I've already recommended them to someone else today )

Bella21 · 14/07/2009 15:32

KingCanute is popping by to talk discs.

Which you probably use already

campergirls · 14/07/2009 15:45

I'm sorry about your dog. But responding to comments from morningpaper et al by saying that she's affectionate is irrelevant. Because you know that - but complete strangers don't!

Lots of cyclists have had unpleasant experiences with dogs, I'm not surprised that this one didn't want to take the risk of stopping. Presumably running her over was an accidental consequence of his rapid decision to keep going rather than risk being jumped at/knocked off his bike/bitten - not a deliberate act of aggression. Your dog, your responsibility in public places.

KingCanuteIAm · 14/07/2009 19:02

Ok, training discs - I think thinking about an answer for your situation has helped me work out how to best use them for my situation!

Right, I am going to assume you have never used them before so please feel free to ignore me if you have!

Discs are basically just four circles strung together, they are shaped so that they do not make a noise unless you make them, this helps avoid confusing the dog with unintended soundings. To begin with you have to condition the dog to respond to them; generally this is done with food. You take a titbit and put it on the floor in front of you and the dog, he will go to pick the treat up. You immediately drop the discs on the floor in front of you. The dog will jump back/startle and stop going for the treat, you pick to treat up straight away then the discs. Say nothing to the dog. Repeat a few times until he is hesitating before going for the treat. You then change it a bit so sometimes when you put it down you say "take it" and do not use the discs, other times you do not say anything. If he leaves the treat you just pick it back up and say nothing, if he goes for it you rattle the discs, if he continues you drop the discs again. Eventually he will get the idea and will leave treats until you let him get them.

Once he is conditioned to reacting to the noise you can choose which behaviour to apply them to, always do one behaviour at once for optimum effect. WRT the bike chasing, as soon as he looks like he is going to chase rattle the discs, this should let him know that the behaviour is not wanted. As soon as he looks back at you or hesitates call his name, do your best silly voiced calling "here rover, here boy come on boy, whoza good puppy come on then" whilst moving backwards away from him. Hopefully he should start coming to you, keep it up until he gets to you then do loads of treats and petting before setting off on your walk again. If the bike is still tempting then you need to get your aim going, basically toss the discs so they land between him and the bike, again repeat the call back process, moving away from him is key - if you have dc with you get them running quickly in the other direction!

If you are worried about the whole thing then get your dc and their friends out on their bikes somewhere safe that you can practice with him.

Don't forget the importance of high-value treats, i.e. one special treat that is only used for whatever behaviour you are trying to get right, with my dog it is doggy chocolate, with my mother?s dogs it is chicken. In this case you would have training discs and a high value treat working for you.

Erm... well, that was another epic
Sorry Blame Bella, she started me off on the subject!

Bella21 · 14/07/2009 19:47

No, seriously, that was pretty darn good, honey...

KingCanuteIAm · 14/07/2009 19:51

Ta Chick

Bella21 · 14/07/2009 19:55

Original poster

releasethehounds · 14/07/2009 21:03

Wow King and Bella - I knew you'd turn up at some point!

I really appreciate you taking the time for this advice - I think our puppy's going to need a lot of training in this respect. I'm really nervous of carrying this out in public so I'll start in the back garden. Do you think a dog with a chasing instinct so ingrained as ours will respond to the discs?

OP posts:

Original poster

releasethehounds · 14/07/2009 21:13

Rubberduck - I'm like you - I always slow down and wait for people/pets to pass if I'm cycling. Also, I've never had any problem with dogs when I'm cycling - however, I know people who have.

Dog owners vary in their response to their dogs' behaviour ie I don't allow my dog to jump up complete strangers yet other people are happy to let their dogs do the same to me. I'm fine with dogs but my DD would be hysterical.

OrmIrian - I had the same thought today. When I think about it there is no really safe place I can walk the puppy until she gets to a more reliable point. I just wish a good walk on a lead was enough for her.

OP posts:

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