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Original poster

Troubled doggy - should he stay or should he go? please offer me advice!

77 replies

Nixz · 14/05/2008 13:08

To cut a long story short.
We got a patterdale terrier x from a rehoming centre about 5 months ago.
In the house, he is brilliant. Very obediant, housetrained, loving - infact, everything you could ask for in a family pet.
Outside, he is a completely different dog.
There is no interaction or companionship with him, he is frantic.
He fights vey very viciously with other dogs, so has to be muzzled. In the first 2 or 3 weeks, he bit me twice, dp once and whilst he was trying to get to another dog, DD's friend ran over to him (we had him on a lead but it was before we muzzled him) and stood infront of him whilst he was trying to lunge at the other dog and he bit her.
He escapes constantly and fights with other dogs, even when we walk him and he see's another dog (Muzzled) he goes mad! He throws his body round and leaps up at me. He even tries to attack dogs when he is muzzled.
We have tried all different kinds of leads, we have had advice from RSPCA and DOGSTRUST and also had some sessions with a 1-1 dog trainer, he is on a low protein diet, muzzled etc. I cant practise the training the dog training as he is too strong or too out of control.
Its breaking my heart but I dont know what else to do, Im worried that if I rehome him he will just end up in another home, which I dont want but i cant see how he could be a family pet.
Has anyone had experience of a similar situation and are there any success stories?
Or do I have to face facts that I made a wrong decision when I rescued him

OP posts:
northernrefugee39 · 14/05/2008 13:43

Oh you poor things. Our friends have a rescue Patterdale terrier who sounds similar. He was the only dog they'd ever had at the dog training class who had to be cornered( with my friend) by a large table in the corner of the hall so he couldn't see any other dogs.
They are gorgeous , but terrors. I'd give him a bit longer, as he's a rescue he's probably unsettles too.
Has yours had his knob chopped? That seemed to help Mojo, our friend's one.
He's much better too, as he's got older, but they can't let him off the leash on walks a he hads his own agenda. it goes with terrier territory.
We had a range of terriers as children, Border Lakeland Jack Russell crosses. My childhood was marred by dog fights, they would just rush at a doberman or bull mastif or something, go straight for the neck and hang on.We had to kick them off, and spent the time apologising to stunned labardor ownwers out for a stroll.

Ireally wish you luck, I'm sure he'll calm a bit as he gets older.

We have a lurcher cross rescue dog, and she used to fight others. But you know what, she's 6 now, and hardly ever does. I'm sure she picked up on our nervousness , and anticipation of a fight, and now we're not so worried that she will fight, she rarely does.
Consequently, we were at the rescue centre last w/e looking at patterdale -chiwawa- crosses! Can you imagine them! They look like minute patterdales! Having read your post, I'm wondering again though!

lilyloo · 14/05/2008 13:47

my dog as a child was a terrier and he always fought other dogs but was lovely in every other way, think it's part of a terriers nature
our dog is a rescue dog and she has got better every year since we have had her, e got her when she was 1 and was told not to have her with dc's ?
We didn't have them then but now she is 9 and is lovely with our 3 dc's an is very gentle and placid. It takes a lot oftime and work wth rescue dogs but you can get there

beautifulgirls · 14/05/2008 15:36

It sounds like you have worked really hard already to try and sort this and I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time with your new dog. Someone has to get to the bottom of this problem with the dog, be it you or another owner - the alternative is that he is put to sleep which I'm sure is something no-one particularly wants to do at all.

There is quite a lot of difference between a dog trainer and a qualified behaviourist. Many trainers will deal with behaviour, some more effectively than others, but they are not qualified and therefore probably have a lot less knowledge than perhaps is required in this situation. I believe that you need to find a qualified behaviourist to see with your dog now and address this problem. Your vet surgery should be able to put you in touch with someone who is registered with the association of pet behaviour therapists. If your dog is insured without behaviour exclusions there is a good chance that such a referral would be covered by insurance too.

Good luck with him - as previously said it will take time, but there are people out there who can help you.

Original poster
Nixz · 14/05/2008 15:50

Thanks for your replies, tbh, quite a few of the people we have liased with have mentioned putting him to sleep, but that is not an option for us, he is great in the house and we cant justify this option.
Although, im quite suprised that no complaints have been made about him, he has attacked several dogs already, without intervention from lots of others around, I think my dog would kill other dogs.
Im scared thats going to happen tbh, and lots of DD's friends are scared and some arent allowed to visit us anymore.

I will try to get intouch with a behaviourlist and take some advice, thats a good idea. The trainer we have thinks my dog is scared of not being in control when he is out on the lead. His tail is between his legs and his panting and drooling are awful.

OP posts:
Original poster
Nixz · 14/05/2008 15:55

Northernrefugee - where are you looking at getting them? Patterdale chiuaua x - sounds very snappy to me!

OP posts:
winestein · 14/05/2008 15:57

Poor you! Patterdales are one of the feistiest and hardest terriers around - to put it into context they are capable of making mincemeat of Staffordshire Bull Terriers. I think they were bred to come up against Badgers and as such have fighting ability and tenacity to put any other dog to shame.

A behaviourist sounds like an excellent idea - you might find the dog wardens at your local council helpful in supplying you with a number for one.

Good luck

Original poster
Nixz · 14/05/2008 16:42

Thanks - yep, i think my doggy would make mincemeat out of a t-rex!

OP posts:
Chequers · 14/05/2008 16:47

Message withdrawn

Original poster
Nixz · 14/05/2008 17:29

We do try to go on walks where there are no other dogs but DP works away at the moment and someplaces are not safe to go alone/evening.

OP posts:
Chequers · 14/05/2008 17:30

Message withdrawn

Original poster
Nixz · 14/05/2008 18:19

Oh yes - when another dog comes over I try to tell the owner that my dog will fight, but for some reason, everyone thinks that THEY have the dog that will NOT fight with mine and change him!!!! Stitch (after lilo and stitch) will still jump on/try to bite/bark/chase etc the other dog. The other day, he was nudging a spaniel so hard, he was lifting it off his feet. He cries out and just basically goes beserk, and then for the rest of the walk, he's on edge. Its very scary to see, especially if your the other dog owner out for a quiet stroll.
Ive just returned from a walk with him, I'm exhausted!

OP posts:
lucyellensmum · 14/05/2008 18:45

I have a patterdale x border terrier, he is an absolute star of a dog, fantastic with my two year old and just OTT friendly with other dogs. Of course he IS a terrier so once he is outside i may as well not exist and Bob does what Bob wants.

gerbrajess · 14/05/2008 18:46

Have just gone looking for a pic of a Patterdale Nixz - they look beautiful - I'm so sorry you're having all these problems...

FWIW, I rehomed a staffie 7 years ago and he was a right handful (not vicious, just uncontrollable) but it did all come together finally, he's good as gold now (almost)!

Good luck with it all

Gerbrajess

brimfull · 14/05/2008 18:49

I used to work at rspcs shelter
Loads of patterdale terriers there I'm afraid,they're notoriously difficult dogs.

Good Luck,you probably need a dog behaviour specialist.

Original poster
Nixz · 14/05/2008 19:00

Ggirl - Taking on board what you have said, i'm quite cross at the dogs home tbh.

When we chose him, we asked thousands of questions 1)Have you had any bother with him
2) Has he shown any signs of aggression
3) Why is he in a kennel on his own?

The staff were very positve about him and said nothing to us about his dog aggression.
Just before we went through the paperwork, a family with a dd of about 10 were buying a rottweiler and the staff were saying things like "Very irresponsible, that dogs a fighter" And they told us to wait, around the corner, out of sight with Stitch incase the rottweiller wanted to fight. I realise now that it was because they knew what Stitch was like, thats was why he was in his own kennel and kept away from other dogs.
I wish theyhad been truthful, there is a home for every dog and a dog for every owner - its just matching them correctly. We have a young daughter ffs!

OP posts:
lucyellensmum · 14/05/2008 19:23

i must have got lucky then! but then mine has straw for brains

Chequers · 14/05/2008 19:31

Message withdrawn

brimfull · 14/05/2008 19:36

nixz-was it an rspca centre?

They would have known about his aggression ,absolutely .

If I were you I would contact them,it is very irresponsible of them.

If it wasn't the rspca ,you could still contact them for advice.

lucyellensmum · 14/05/2008 21:09

i can see that you are quite cross with the rescue centre, they were irresponsible to let any dog go to a family with young children tbh. The problem is, you can never assess a dogs true personality in a kennel situation as the dog will not behave in the same way it would in a home environment. Things like aggression towards other dogs are probably attenuated by the dogs not feeling they have a place. You might get a dog that appears aggresive in kennels but is placid as a lamb and vice verse, that timid shy little doggie will turn into a snarling demon after a few weeks in their new home.

What you have to remember is that if a dog is in a rescue centre there is a reason for it, and mostly it is because their owners can't cope with them. Yes there are times when old folk get sick etc, but young dogs tends to be an issue ther somewhere. We got our old rottie from battersea when he was 19m and he was a demon!!! i lost count of the amounts of time he was sat in the car waiting to go back in the first six months. If it is any encouragement things did settle after that time.

My advise would be, get the dog seen by the vet - i assume he is castrated, but also rule out any physical problem. He is probably insecure and feels he needs to protect you. Its difficult because now there are issues with other dogs, you will become tense and pass it on to him, how to not be tense in this situation im not sure though. We spent a fortune on doggie shrinks and shed alot of tears over our old dog - but he was worth it in the end. Sadly we lost him very young to cancer, but he truly was a lovely dog and im so pleased we persevered with him. If the aggression is not aimed at you or your children, see how he goes. Take the muzzle off, it will make him feel threatened - just make sure you have hold of him. Most dog fights are all teeth and snarling, but scary anyway. So you might have a dog that fights, its not as bad as a dog that bites, so you have something to work on - I think he is worht a try, BUT i would also totally understand if you felt you coudlnt cope either, its hard.

Original poster
Nixz · 14/05/2008 21:19

If i take the muzzle off him, he bites me or whoever holds him to get to the other dog.
He bit me 3 times on one walk once, i dont mean a 'nip', i mean top and bottom teeth sunk straight into me! Jeans ripped, holes in my boots - the lot!
My dog doesnt just snarl - he wants to kill, he becomes uncontrollable! Even for DP who is a hurly burly glaswegian paratrooper!!!

OP posts:
Original poster
Nixz · 14/05/2008 21:20

It wasnt a rspca centre and ive asked ofr advice and there advice was non-exsistent!

OP posts:
NutterlyUts · 14/05/2008 21:27

I would put a baskerville muzzle on him instead of a normal one since the first lets him pant and drink and is less restrictive, but still safe.

Chequers · 14/05/2008 21:36

Message withdrawn

Original poster
Nixz · 14/05/2008 21:49

Its so sad for them , i was heartbroken at all the dogs when we went to get stitch. I cant imagine him going back there.

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lucyellensmum · 14/05/2008 21:52

battersea dogs home have a behaviour hotline too, very useful, take a look on their website.