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Original poster

MIL bitten- what do you think?

79 replies

smartiejake · 06/01/2008 14:03

Dh has just taken MIL to A and E with a dog bite. We had gone out for a walk with her 2 dogs ( a bichon and a manchester terrier) and my sheltie. We were in a popular place for dogwalkers (small country park) and most people let their dogs off the lead.

One of her dogs is kept on a lead as he will not come back when called and has done a runner a few times.

We were coming to the end of our walk when we were approached by a 6 month old staffie puppy that I had seen before -previously it had pounced on my sheltie (not aggressively) and would not leave off- owners did nothing to stop it and did not call it off until I asked them to.

MIL dog on the lead is petrified of staffies as had been badly attacked by one in the past (30 stitches). When the staffie bounded up it took no notice of MIL telling it to go away or heeded warning from MIL dog who was growling and barking.MIL dog then got hold of the staffie by the skin on it's head. MIL had her dog on a very short lead and desperately tried to prise them apart and got badly bitten on the hand in the process by the staffie who was obviously trying to get away from her dog. While this was going on the owner of the staffie was sauntering up to the scene and made no attempt to call the dog off.

MIL (bleeding) very tactfully said "I know my dog was the aggressor but I had hoped you would call your dog away!"

He admitted that the dog will not come when called so why the hell did he have it off the lead? I know MIL dog was the one who showed aggression but it was on a lead and if the staffie had been under control it would have never happened in the first place.

AIBU in thinking this dog should be on lead? What do you lot think?

OP posts:

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 14:09

Why did your mil stick her hands between fighting dogs?

Yes, the other dog should have been on the lead but I think if your mil dog should be muzzled if he has a history of biting other dogs. SImilar points made on the other thread that dogs on leads are more likely to be aggressive.

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 14:10

Sounds like she wasn't bitten on purpose but put her hand in between two fighting dogs.

MAMAZON · 06/01/2008 14:13

yes the staffie should have been on a lead.

it is quite common for a dog that is on a lead being approached by one running free to become more aggressive. it is scared anyway and feels trapped so becomes aggressive as a defence.

why your mother felt the need to put her hand in teh middle is odd.

best action is to remove your coat and throw over the dogs heads. they can't see and so stop fighting and you can then pull them apart.

Original poster

smartiejake · 06/01/2008 14:20

She didn't put her hand in between them, she was trying to pull her dog away by the lead and got in the way. Useful idea about throwing a coat over their heads.

I know she wasn't bitten on purpose. Her dog has no history of aggression (never bitten another dog before) just v. frightened but I think I would be inclined to muzzle it now in the light of what happened.

Just annoyed really that these dog owners don't see that it's important to keep their dogs under control especailly as MIL does and so do I (my sheltie is not fully trained yet and I keep her on an extendable lead as she will not always come back when called)

OP posts:

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 14:23

If I was your mil I would get her dog out there straight away socialising with well behaved dogs and lots of it. Also really work on the recall so that she doesnt have to put it on the lead unless totally necessary. It would be a real shame because of this to keep the dog on the lead and muzzled for the future as it will create a even more nervous dog which is dangerous.

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 14:24

A very short lead is not a good idea as the dog is not able to do the appropriate body language to show it doesnt want to fight but instead looks like it wants to.

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 14:26

Could it also be that your mil unconsciously because of her own fear of the approaching dog and her tension caused her dog to be on the defence/attack? Difficult one. I know if we approach dogs I know to be dodgy I have to act like I am not in the slighest phased.

minorityrules · 06/01/2008 14:30

"MIL dog on the lead is petrified of staffies"

Bit puzzled by this comment, do dogs know what breeds other dogs are?? I think they just see them as dogs, not breeds

I would put the blame on your MIL and her dog, I'm afraid. Her dog was the aggressor, your mil can't control her dog and got bit in the aftermath. Poor staffie prob only came over to say hello, your mil got flustered, her dog got flustered, you said your self the staff was trying to get away, only 6 months old, prob just wanted to play

I don't think you can blame other owner or dog for this situation

welshdeb · 06/01/2008 14:36

I used to have a staffie and whilst she was lovely with people, I never forgot that they were bred for fighting other dogs.
They are not the most intelligent or obedient of dogs either.
She wasn't agressive to other dogs initially but I am quite sure she wouldn't have turned down a fight.
As a result I would never let her off the lead on walks unless we were nowhere near any other dogs and would always avoid other dogs. I used to hate it when other dogs not on leads came over to us as I would never know how they would react to her. She was very strong and I am sure she could have injured another dog if attacked. Luckily nothing like that ever happened but I have to say I would never have put my hands near her mouth if she was in a fight, their jaw muscles are incredibly strong.

I think staffies are very good family pets BUT owners need to know what they are like and treat them properly.

Therefore I think this staffies owner was highly irresponsible. He should not be letting his dog off the lead and he should have been more concerned that his dog bit your mil.

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 14:39

But welshdeb, the staffie didnt bite on purpose. It was trying to get away from op's mil's dog who was attacking it. It bit out to defend itself and mil's hand was in the way.

Aside I am sure I have read somewhere that staffies should be kept on leads around other dogs but in this case it was the other dog who was aggressive.

Saturn74 · 06/01/2008 14:39

The owners of the staffie are to blame.
They allowed their dog off the lead, when they clearly admit that they cannot control it.
You MIL had her dog on the lead so she could control it.
It had never bitten before, but was terrified.
She couldn't be expected to predict what would happen, and she had taken all reasonable precautions.

How frightening for your MIL, and for the dogs.

Your poor MIL, I hope she recovers quickly.

minorityrules · 06/01/2008 14:54

So baby staff bounds up (sounds playful), mil dog growls and barks, mil telling it to go away (cos dogs understand english ) Poor puppy gets grabbed by its head and is 'obviously' trying to get away and mil gets bitten??

How could the other owners have done anything in that instant (as I'm guessing it was quick and not drawn out over a number of minutes)

You have to let a dog off to teach it recall. I'm not sure even my highly trained GS would have been able to been recalled in such a situation (and he has an excellent recall)

This poor little puppy has prob learnt a lesson today

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 14:57

Also in the op it says the dog on the lead itself has run off a few times so has been let off the lead itself without perfect recall. It doesnt seem fair then to blame the puppy's owners for having done the same

Saturn74 · 06/01/2008 15:02

"While this was going on the owner of the staffie was sauntering up to the scene and made no attempt to call the dog off".

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 15:04

If you call a dog once or twice and it doesnt come there is no point calling it again. You lose the worth of the call as it is ignored. 'Sauntered' - pretty emotive word used to desribe someone coming to get their dog. Perhaps he had a medical condition that meant he couldnt have sprinted!

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 15:06

Btw way I'm not saying the staffie shouldnt have been on the lead if it didnt have good recall but as I said the op has already said the aggressor had already run away a few times itself so presumably had been let off without having good recall itself more than once.

Threadworm · 06/01/2008 15:07

The key fact is surely that the mil dog was under control (because on a lead) and the little staffie wasn't. So legally the other owner is in the wrong.

But a short lead and a defensive owner is highly likely to add to agression. And it is always rash to put hand in range of snapping dogs. So could have been handled better by mil perhaps.

minorityrules · 06/01/2008 15:08

Also, maybe the owner didn't realise his dog was in the midst of being attacked?

Where we walk, the dogs play and it looks like they are fighting, it's what dogs do. They bite and grab but without any force. Rarely does it turn nasty but can look nasty, the noise can be horrendous

That's what dogs do and how puppies learn

Wisteria · 06/01/2008 15:09

To be honest I think it's a bit of both - absolutely crazy of your MIL to put her hand anywhere near fighting dogs.

Staffie should have been better controlled but is only a puppy when all is said and done and you say that he wasn't being aggressive.

I am sure dogs do recognise other breeds, especially ones who have hurt them in the past.

You MIL's nerves will have travelled down the lead to her dog, best thing to do would have been a coat over them but agree other owner should have done more (I do think you are quite lucky that he didn't create about his dog being attacked).

MIL's dog doesn't sound terribly well trained either to be honest.

Has she had an up to date tetanus? If not, make sure she gets one.

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 15:10

I do agree though that you should be on the watch for dogs on the lead as ime they can often be aggressive. I dont mind my dogs playing with dogs on the lead but I figure dogs on leads are not to be socialised with which is a shame for those dogs.

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 15:10

Sorry meant 'off' the lead.

wannaBe · 06/01/2008 15:38

I wonder if people would be so quick to defend this puppy if it had been a rotweiler .

Imo and ime staffies are nasty, horrible, vicious, agressive creatures when it comes to other dogs and I wouldn't trust one within spitting distance of either of mine.

ultimately the owner of the staffy is at fault, mil's dog was on a lead, the staffy was not. had the staf been on a lead, and under control, the incident wouldn't have happened.

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 15:43

It's not about it being a staffie though. I think most people are agreeing it should have been on the lead and anyway in this case it wasnt the aggressive dog anyway.

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 15:43

It's not about it being a staffie though. I think most people are agreeing it should have been on the lead and anyway in this case it wasnt the aggressive dog anyway.

minorityrules · 06/01/2008 15:52

It's not about what breed it is. Any 6 month old pup is playful and still learning

This is what happens in dog walking places. The dogs learn to socialise by playing (sometimes roughly)

This pup wasn't aggressive, the other dog was and the mil was stressed after previous bad experience of this breed. It bit her as it was being attacked, which could happen with any breed

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