MIL bitten- what do you think?

[smartiejake]

Dh has just taken MIL to A and E with a dog bite. We had gone out for a walk with her 2 dogs ( a bichon and a manchester terrier) and my sheltie. We were in a popular place for dogwalkers (small country park) and most people let their dogs off the lead.

One of her dogs is kept on a lead as he will not come back when called and has done a runner a few times.

We were coming to the end of our walk when we were approached by a 6 month old staffie puppy that I had seen before -previously it had pounced on my sheltie (not aggressively) and would not leave off- owners did nothing to stop it and did not call it off until I asked them to.

MIL dog on the lead is petrified of staffies as had been badly attacked by one in the past (30 stitches). When the staffie bounded up it took no notice of MIL telling it to go away or heeded warning from MIL dog who was growling and barking.MIL dog then got hold of the staffie by the skin on it's head. MIL had her dog on a very short lead and desperately tried to prise them apart and got badly bitten on the hand in the process by the staffie who was obviously trying to get away from her dog. While this was going on the owner of the staffie was sauntering up to the scene and made no attempt to call the dog off.

MIL (bleeding) very tactfully said "I know my dog was the aggressor but I had hoped you would call your dog away!"

He admitted that the dog will not come when called so why the hell did he have it off the lead? I know MIL dog was the one who showed aggression but it was on a lead and if the staffie had been under control it would have never happened in the first place.

AIBU in thinking this dog should be on lead? What do you lot think?

wannabe - apologies but that's a load of old rot - Staffies, Rotties and all dogs have the capacity to be either lovely dogs or vicious bastards, depending on the mentality of the owner.

FWIW I would have the same reaction whether we were talking about a rottie, great dane, a lab, a terrier or a staffie!

am getting a strange sense of deja vu

Breeds aside, it is only 6 months old. It needs to be off the lead in different circumstances in order to learn how to behave.

My dog was perfect at dog training and at home but when he saw new people or other dogs, he totally forgot his manners - he wasn't totally reliable until he was at least 2yo.

The owner (as usual) should have been more on the ball. Annoying as it is, loose dogs are a fact of life, particularly in busy, dog walking areas so your MIL should look into re-socialising her dog and/or possibly use a muzzle.

Hope her hand is OK.

Very irresponsible to let a dog, that does not obey, off the lead imo! The staffie should have at least been on a training lead. Did your MIL pull her dog away to walk off as the staffie dog approached? Both dogs felt threatened so both bit.
Your poor MIL I hope she's ok.

What you mean just as the mil had done previously herself??

Know what you mean about the dejavu!

Also, something I've used in the past with reasonable success, is to make the dog on the lead sit if approached by another dog. Hold your dog firmly by the back of the collar and give it vocal commands to sit, quiet etc. Ignore the other dog, it usually gets the message or the owner arrives.

That way, your dog doesn't get the opportunity to bite the other one and escalate the situation.

Waves to hercules, fellow Dane owner!

I didn't look at the GD site btw. I hear too many 'you could put a saddle on him' comments already!

I got one of those 'saddle' comments yesterday!

hercules who are you responding to? me? can't see where I wrote that

Sorry post wasnt very clear. Only the dejavu part of it was meant for you! in response to your deja vu comment just before.

In Wannabes defence her guide dog was attacked by someones Staffy who escaped so I have found her to be biased against them. If people have no experience of Staffs other than to have their dog attacked by one then I can't say I would blame them for not liking them.

Dumbass that I am, I stuck my hand in the middle of a dog fight involving my dog where he would have been killed by a Staff that had been trained to fight (long story, not the current owners fault). I have the scar to tell the tale [doh!] Luckily I know Staffs very well and knew as soon as I had controlled the attacking Staff he would be as friendly as anything to me - and he was. However, it is unbelievably dumb to engage yourself in a dog fight.

Legally, OPs mil was in the right as she was controlling her dog and the other dog was not controlled. At the end of the day though the other dog is just a puppy being socialised.

Ayup Wisteria, mi duck

Didn't know that wannabe; can understand your vehemence towards them with a horrid experience like that, but they can be nice ...

Are you al'reet wine, my pigeon?

Aaah. Not reet bad, mushn't gwumble, my mini pork pie

Thanks for all your opinions. MIL has returned from minor injuries unit (Fab- much better thatn A and E in and out in 25 mins) hand is cleaned and bandaged and she is going to have a tetanus tomorrow at Dr.s. No stitches as they don't do this with dog bites to prevent infection.

I am with both sides of the argument you lot have expressed. In hind site getting in the way of a fighting dog is not a great idea but it all happened so fast.

MIL has taken he dog to endless training classes (including a three week residential class) 95% of the tme he does come back. In the few instances he has done a runner he run on the roads and she has worried about him causing an accident so she just can't chance letting him off.

Agree that her fears transfer onto the dog. She now feels she must muzzle him to prevent him attacking any other approaching dog. God knows what would have happened if a child had got in the way.

BTW the owner of the other dog has no impairment (other than being a bit dim)that prevented him calling off his dog. I have come across he and his wife with their dog before and they just seem to think that everyone sees their pup as an adorable friendly dog who just wants to play.

They seem to see his antics as quite harmless but other dogs get very fed up with him as he is relentless. This pup once nailed my sheltie to the ground and would not leave her alone a few months ago. He just wouldn't lay off and Smartie was getting really fed up. The owners just grinned as if to say Oh how sweet! I had to ask them to call it off before my dog got her teeth out!

That's like the parents who just say 'oh he's just playing' when little tom is biting the ear of little jessica . Why do people fail to realise that just because their dog is the apple of their eye, not everyone is honour bound to immediately feel similar?!

Am so glad your MIL is ok and dogs are ok.

Legally the person who is with the dog (over 18) is responsible for its behaviour. It is irrelevant the behaviour of your mothers dog as she had it under control by keeping it on the lead. The fact he did not take his dog away from your mothers dog when it came over makes the incident between the dogs his fault not hers. Though his dog was bitten by hers first, it is not her fault legally. Regardless of which dog caused the incident between the dogs, the fact the other dog bit your mum IS the reponsibility of the other owner. Breeds are irrelevant here too.

You need to get this reported to the police, even if you do not have the details of the owners of the dog. They may already have reports on file and have the dog/owner on a warning, or if it were to happen again in the future to another dog or person and they get more details from that incident and link them then they may be able to do more then. I would also advise that you report to the local RSPCA too. Likewise previous or future records they hold may be relevant too.

Any dog that bites in this way, no matter why it occured has the potential to be very dangerous again in the future. Sadly you may well feel like you are talking to a brick wall when reporting it to police and RSCPA, but please do it anyway. I have had to push very hard in past over serial dog attacks in the local area to where I work (vets) to get things done, but the more reports they get of a problem animal, the more likely they are to finally do something. The last case I dealt with I finally suceeded in identifying the owner of the rogue dog and the RSPCA were able to go round and give the owner sensible advice as a first line about how to control the dog with a warning about legal proceedings in the future if there were other incidents. We were seeing an injured dog every week for a couple of months up until that point, and since then we have not had one report of a problem so it would appear the owner has taken notice and hopefully all parties have a good outcome with this.

If you need any more info let me have an email address and I can get in touch with you, though I may not be avail for a few days after tonight.

Eh? But this dog was being bitten by the mil's dog and was trying to defend itself in the way that dogs do. It was the mil who put her hand in the way.
It could just have easily have been the aggressor who bit the mil.

Of course the puppy should have been under control but even the mil has been in the situation where her dog has run off several times.

I wonder if you could argue it wasnt actually under control as although on teh lead it did attack another dog. No idea of the legality of that arguement though.

We had a staffy for 9 years and he was a;ways the best with the kids etc.. but sadly we had to have him put down due to cancer. If i was to have another it would be a staffy without a doubt, but dd2 got bit on the face by a staffy cross the sat before xmas and this has terrified me as we have known this dog for 7 years.

?? sorry bg I don't agree at all.

A puppy came over and started to play with the MIL's dog who then attacked...how can that be the fault of either dog really?

I think that would be an extreme measure for a puppy who was just trying to play.....reporting to the police is a bit ott IMO.....

Neither dog was trying to attack a human and if the hand hadn't been there it wouldn't have happened!

I would also add that quite clearly MIL did not have her dog under control if it could lash out and bite the puppy. Just because a dog is attached to a lead does not mean that they are under control.

A controlled dog will not be able to bite another dog.

sorry hercules just said that didn't she?

Ethically perhaps it is a hard one yes, but legally that is the situation. If one dog approaches another that can not get away (on a lead) then even if the dog on the lead lashes out, it is not considered the fault of the dog on the lead. The one out of control is the one who had the ability to get away but did not.

Reporting it to the police is simply to record the incident. If they have no previous reports they will take no action anyway, but if they do have other issues with this dog then it is justified to report it and ensure action does happen before someone gets seriously injured here. I am certainly not suggesting that the dog needs to be destroyed or legal battles commence in any way - just to monitor the local situation.

If you have ever dealt with some of the injuries I have seen then might understand why I feel so strongly about ensuring that problem dogs are not allowed to keep doing this. One day someone somewhere may be prevented from having to go through this themself - dog or human.

It is quite an emotive subject I agree, and it does sound for the most part like there was probably just a play element from the puppy - none the less a person has been bitten here. IF there is a next time from this dog if may not be such a mild situation.

I have looked into this - in the end, if it came to it, a dog on a lead is legally deemed to be under control. A dog not a lead is not under control. However, reporting a puppy that approached another dog is totally over the top.

That would be the OP's MILs dog then BG. So should she report her own dog?