Rabbits - indoors or outdoors?

[JumpJockey]

The DDs really want rabbits, and I said last year they could have them as a reward for extreme bravery (medical challenge). Since then DD2 hasn’t been able to as immunosuppressed, but now she can and they want to get stuck in. We’ve not had pets before, I’d be happy with a cat by DH and DD1 dead against. The question is, are rabbits best indoors or outdoors?
Pluses for outdoors:
More natural behaviour (i.e. access to grass, more space)
Would get the DDs out every day to tend to them
Minuses for outdoors:
Neighbours have cats and we know there is at least one fox in the area
Decent sized hutches/enclosures are v pricey
Our grass is full of things that the websites say they shouldn’t eat

Pluses for indoors:
DDs more likely to play with /interact with them
They’d probably need to come indoors in winter anyway
Minuses for indoors:
We don’t have a room to give over to them (only suitable one would be the utility, and that gets v hot and cold because of tumble dryer) and otherwise the kitchen/family room is full of stuff that would get nibbled
Less opportunity for natural behaviour, I’d have thought, unless you take them outdoors every day (is this expected for indoor rabbits?)

What advice can you offer? Thanks!

My SIL has one that lives indoors and honestly I just don't get it. Compared to most dogs and some cats that actually offer affection to their owners, this rabbit acts like she doesn't exist. She can't even pick it up and hold it as it goes mad and scratches her to hell.

In return for its non affection it destroys and chews absolutely everything in her house, any thing electric it chews through, scratches the carpet, trails hay everywhere and I'm sorry but her house STINKS, now she isint the tidiest or cleanest so maybe other people who have house rabbits are able to keep on top of it to avoid the smell but honestly I won't let me children go to her house as it's a public health hazard.

Get them a dog OP

You can teach rats to do tricks. And they love being cuddled, they will lay on their back on your lap, like a dog, for you to tickle their tummies.

Lots of youtube videos...

we had belgian hares....had 4 of them over the years...roamed about the house....litter trained....lovely pets....need lots of exercise...our males were all friendly and neutered....at home all day so lots of company for them....last one died a few years ago....all lived to 10 years....not sure if we get another one....as may not have time to spend with him...??..but yes as mentioned...hard work at times and can be expensive...often hard to get insurance after 5 years...important to check for any dental issues as can be long term and costly.

I have two neutered boys - they live in a walk in aviary type enclosure, 12x6ft. It is on slabs to prevent them digging out or foxes digging in.
They have foam playmats on part of the floor but the slabs are actually quite good as it keeps their nails naturally short (I never have to cut them) & it's very cool to lay down on in hot weather.

Your utility would not be suitable unfortunately - rabbits do pretty well in cold weather provided they've acclimatised but don't cope well with heat or with big temperature changes.

They are "sit and watch" pets rather than "pick up and cuddle". If I sit with them they hop on my lap, steal my book, generally cause mischief, but they are not cuddly.

I'm not sure how old your DDs are but I'd say rabbits are better for older children, secondary school age, who can understand them better.

I've also had guinea pigs my whole life. In over 30 years I've been nipped once, they are happy to sit on your lap and snuggle, make fantastic noises, lovely little creatures. I usually recommend them for first time pets.

They also don't need annual vaccinations or flystrike prevention so are cheaper to keep than rabbits. Guinea pigs tend to do better indoors in the UK (outdoors is possible but they aren't native to our climate so its harder work keeping them warm enough). My girls are in a 6ft x 2ft cage with fleece liners indoors, & not smelly if cleaned out weekly.

Bunnies are not best for cuddling. Maybe go to pets at home and get them cuddling some Guinea pigs instead. See if you can convince them :)

Visit someone who has rats! You won't look back.

I feel scared now. We got my daughter (10 y/o) a rabbit late last year, we keep him in the house and so far he has been no bother. When he can get the snip, we will get him a wife! He has a big cage but jumps in and out as he pleases and has free reign of downstairs but only poos in cage (think this is fluke). I feel like he's going to become a nightmare after reading all these posts.

Awful thing to say but they seem to have a long life span, my daughter will be at uni and I'll probably still have the bloody rabbit!

@Shipwrecked2019

I feel scared now. We got my daughter (10 y/o) a rabbit late last year, we keep him in the house and so far he has been no bother. When he can get the snip, we will get him a wife! He has a big cage but jumps in and out as he pleases and has free reign of downstairs but only poos in cage (think this is fluke). I feel like he's going to become a nightmare after reading all these posts.

Awful thing to say but they seem to have a long life span, my daughter will be at uni and I'll probably still have the bloody rabbit!

Definitely get him neutered - hormones are half the issue with many challenging bunnies, I think, & then they learn what behaviour tells humans to back off

A companion should also reduce boredom and destructive behaviour. Any rescue should be able to match him up with a suitable bunny and help with bonding.

They can live 10+ years, so yes, you could still have the rabbits after DD has gone to uni. Personally I think they are great adult pets so you may really enjoy them

Obviously they'll still need their annual vaccines as indoor bunnies, & access to 60 sq ft 24/7 - which may be why he's letting himself out. Its great he using the cage as a toileting area though, just watch out for any wires!

If not rats how about polecats / ferrets ?
I have kept them off and on pretty much since I was about 11 .

They need to be kept in pairs or more and must be natured but they are relativity easy to keep , they need a big well insulated hutch similar to a rabbit hutch ( ie sleeping part and play part ) and plenty of outdoor / indoor space to play .
They are extremely good at escaping so if they are outside at any time it needs to be on hard standing and brick or walls at least 4 foot high

They make great pets , a bit like a cross between a cat and dog , you can take them for walks teach them to play fetch build obstacle courses for them but they are also happy to be left alone for most of the day and will entertain each other .

Here is one of mine

The exotic vet thing makes me realise you never see a rabbit in the vets, it’s all cats and dogs.

We love our rabbits who live indoors but go out in the garden when we are home. They have a huge corner of the garden fenced off which does spoil the aesthetics, but they eat everything otherwise!

But I agree they are pets you need to want & enjoy as well as the children- we rarely cuddle ours and are out a lot (work / school full time), which suits them as they have free range of the kitchen. We use an IKEA unit for a shelter which they love to retreat to, and they also spend time behind the old sofa we have. They mainly use the litter tray but we have a sweep of any stray dry poos!

We also have guinea pigs who live in during winter & out in the summer. They are easier to handle but I personally am not as attached - the rabbits have so much personality and I love to watch them. Guineas smell & are filthy if not cleaned out promptly. DD is able to do this as she is 13 but if she has a busy week I often do it so it’s another chore for me.

The children (DS is 10) learned a lot about animal care, prey animals behaviour, bonding the rabbits (that was easter holiday project for 2021) and now adore the rabbits as complex & sensitive pets - I think they have been the right age for this, and DS has a caring, sensitive side so is quite responsible about looking after them without expecting entertainment- he goes on his laptop for that 😁.

I adore my rabbits but they are hard work.

If you do consider them - only go to a rescue. They are overwhelmed with rabbits, the one I volunteer for has had up to 100 on the waiting list to come in in the last few months :(

Rescues will already be bonded (a bonded pair is best), up to date on vaccines, vet checked, and they'll be able to match you with a pair who are happy to be around children. My last pair HATED small children but find with larger ones and adults. My old girl would bite toddlers, oops.

There's some excellent advice on housing on this website:
www.thebigrabbithutch.co.uk/

And loads of advice on their care here:
rabbitwelfare.co.uk/

Included a pic of my shed and aviary - this was a custom made order and in all cost about £1k. The aviary is about 5 years old now (where has the time gone) and the shed is over 7 years old.

I'm now onto my second pair of rescue rabbits, they're both about 4 years old now. My last pair lived to 12 and 13 years.

I don't have kids, they are my fur kids, but my nephews are pretty good with them when they visit. Although my white boy just hides as he hates touching.

Awww @bunnygeek you have a similar set up to my late bunnies. Miss them so much it hurts now and it’s been about 8 years since they died. I couldn’t get another pair because of the hard work and because I love them too much.

@Mol1628 they were beautiful! My heart still hurts when I think about my old pair, but I got my big white boy as company for my old girl when she was widowed - and I just had to carry on. I adore my current pair and they make me howl with laughter every day as they can be so ridiculous lol! If anything, it gives you a good routine you have to stick to, certainly gave me purpose in lockdowns!

Rabbits are amazing pets! They are also a lot of work, and expensive.

We have outdoor bunnies who have a whole shed to themselves with constant access to a secure run. One of ours particularly likes to chew things. We had them indoors for the bonding process ( after one of a pair had died) and the skirting boards are all chewed now. She had plenty of other things to chew ( safe wood) but didn't stop her nibbling the house!

So I'd not personally keep them indoors. They stay out even in winter as the shed is windproof and insulated and they grow their winter coats anyway.

One thing to bear in mind is that rabbits are prey animals and usually don't like being picked up and cuddled. Which can be hard for children as they look so cute and cuddly. But to have a good relationship with your rabbit it does need to be on their terms. We've had several pairs of rabbits over the years and only one has enjoyed being cuddled. Our current two will accept treats and nose rubs but don't like being held at all.

Why do rabbit owners say bad things about rabbits? For me I am aware that many rabbits are taken on by people and then given up because they've not realised the reality of keeping them. Or worse, keep them in unsuitable conditions like hutches. So I'd want people to know how much work they really are.

Ideally I'd have more than two but DH won't hear of it!

@Thecurtainsofdestiny you're right lots of people say bad things about rabbits - but that's usually just where they've not been kept properly.

My black and white Lop girl pictured above was found as a stray. It wasn't hard to see why she was probably let out or dumped as she was extremely hormonal and extremely aggressive, she'd probably been kept in an itty bitty hutch with nothing to do but fight whatever hands came in at her. Now she's been spayed and bonded the aggression is gone, but she'll still be vocal (they can be surprisingly loud with their grunts and growls!) and bat you away if she's done with you or you're in her way haha!

@secretnutter we had a second hand wendy house too. It was ideal, meant they had loads of space in bad weather.

I put the hay bale in there so they could hop up high and buried a giant cardboard tube (that I got from a carpet fitter) in the hay on the ground. They had a hutch in there too, so it was quite cosy in the winter. Didn't have heating, if it was very cold I took them in the house, but they didn't like it.

Fly strike - dear Lord, that looks horrific!

@bunnygeek what do you keep in your aviary? Is it in plastic for bird flu?

Rats - not had those - but I do hear they giggle? That's pretty endearing.

DS1 landed up loving reptiles, DD amphibians and DS2 birds. We have a comprehensive collection of crappy pets...all of which will outstay the kids.

It's been a steep learning curve for me.

Fly strike is awful, I had one who was prone to it & I had to check him twice a day in the summer which was stressful for him. I only realised how stressful it was when he had gone as during the summer I was constantly worrying about it and had netting everywhere to try & keep the flies away. He was a lovely bun though & lived to be 10 as did his sister. I did love them but I do think rats are better pets, particularly for young children.

Why do rabbit owners say bad things about rabbits? For me I am aware that many rabbits are taken on by people and then given up because they've not realised the reality of keeping them. Or worse, keep them in unsuitable conditions like hutches. So I'd want people to know how much work they really are.

^ this, 100%. Its not to put people off, but rather to ensure they have a realistic understanding and that rabbits are the right pet for them/their family, before they take on a 10+ year commitment.
I've suggested guinea pigs to quite a few families with young children instead as rabbits weren't what they actually wanted in a pet, they want something the kids could handle, cuddle etc.

We’ve had indoor and outdoor rabbits and I personally recommend letting them live outdoors, they are much happier in their natural environment.

Our indoor bunny chewed through carpets, TV wires, every charger we had, and would try to dig on the sofa. Once we put the rabbit outside they would binky around happy.

I’d recommend getting two and bonding them, we put the hutch on concrete as it naturally keeps their nails trim but they have full run of the garden during the day. So we have pretty much no flowers as they eat them all, but we don’t need to mow the lawn as they keep it at a perfect trimmed level

Rabbits have their own personalities so some loved to held, others don’t. Get your daughters to be with them as much as possible to get to know them, feed them little treats of fresh veggies so they get to know they can trust you.

Potty training rabbits is super easy too, just pick up the poo for about 2 or 3 days and put it in a tray in the corner of the run and they will naturally go there after day 3 (a proper rabbit potty is best as it goes up at the back for them to wee up). I only clean the potty out every other day and have no rabbit poo anywhere else. You can put cat litter in there to do it doesn’t smell. Only put the hard poo in the potty as they re-eat the soft poo as it didn’t digest.

If you do get two, get them both neutered as it stops the female getting womb cancer and it stops the male spraying up everything.

[quote vivariumvivariumsvivaria]@secretnutter we had a second hand wendy house too. It was ideal, meant they had loads of space in bad weather.

I put the hay bale in there so they could hop up high and buried a giant cardboard tube (that I got from a carpet fitter) in the hay on the ground. They had a hutch in there too, so it was quite cosy in the winter. Didn't have heating, if it was very cold I took them in the house, but they didn't like it.

Fly strike - dear Lord, that looks horrific!

@bunnygeek what do you keep in your aviary? Is it in plastic for bird flu?

Rats - not had those - but I do hear they giggle? That's pretty endearing.

DS1 landed up loving reptiles, DD amphibians and DS2 birds. We have a comprehensive collection of crappy pets...all of which will outstay the kids.

It's been a steep learning curve for me.[/quote]
The aviary is attached to the shed for the rabbits (the height is for the humans!) :) it's their run. It's 10ft x 5ft. The plastic is just to help keep it dry. They have 24/7 access to the aviary and the shed.

That sounds like an amazing rabbit run.

Lucky bunnies, @bunnygeek

Hi I currently have 4 rabbits and absolutely love them to bits! I would recommend looking at example set ups on instagram as there is a lovely rabbit community on there.

Personally I couldn’t keep mine inside but they live in a 10ft by 6ft shed, which they free range in, they run to me as soon as I come in and are affectionate. I have decorated my shed in a lovely way and it’s a super nice relaxing place for me to go to.

I sweep the poops a couple of times a day and fully clean twice a week but I have a huge litter tray with loads of hay.

Neutering and vaccinating is a must for health reasons, probably easier to adopt an already bonded neutered pair :)

Mine also have an enclosed outdoor run, I used to let the, free roam in the garden but even supervised, sadly one got taken by a fox. So it’s a covered run for mine only.

They have been amazing for my mental health

Lots of good suggestions. Certainly it's helpful to hear what they really need, and that's why I asked. It would be great to let them have the run of the garden, for instance, but since everyone is out of the house during the say and there are foxes and cats nearby, that's not possible. I don't want to be getting rabbits if we can't give them the care they deserve.

Once we're all out of isolation, will try the visit to pet store and see if they like guineas. And yes, definitely would adopt rather than buy.