My dog attacked a dog today

[Psychgrad]

I’m so down and shaken up all day from this.
Dp and I adopted our staffie from Battersea 2.5 years ago, she was difficult for the first year despite us putting her through rigorous training, she was aggressive towards other dogs (not reactive but started a lot of fights while playing). During the first lockdown, we saw a huge improvement in her or so we thought. I used to muzzle her but in the last year I’ve relaxed that as she’s been so good with other dogs (albeit rough and bossy, but good nonetheless).

Well she recently got thrown out of her daycare for pinning other dogs down, we put it down to the daycare being too busy for her so began fo work on training her around dogs (giving treats when she was polite around other dogs etc.). That was going well, her recall is amazing, everyone compliments it and says they wish their dog had recall like ours.

Then today all that changed, at first the walk was going well, I was practicing recall with her and our other new rescue dog (who is an angel), when next of all she attacked a dog out of the blue for absolutely no reason at all. I think the other dog wasn’t very interested in her as she approached rather impolitely, then they had a bum sniff and it seemed to be ok. I went over to put her on the lead as I didn’t want her to play while I had both dogs with me as it’s too much to handle. Before I had a chance to get her on the lead she just jumped on the dog and had to be pulled off by the owners of the other dog. No blood was drawn but I am really embarrassed and depressed by all of this. I thought we’d passed all of this behaviour. I think I might muzzle her from now on, we used to let her have the ball as she would hyper focus on that and if we didn’t have the ball, we’d just muzzle her. I think this is the best solution. We had two behaviourists when we first got her so I’m reluctant to find another one as they weren’t great tbh. One helped me with desensitizing her to things she was afraid of (people, bikes etc) but she was not great at dealing with aggression and seemed terrified of her even though my dog was terrified of her. The other behaviourist was more of a dog trainer and was very inconsistent/ lazy with her business. If anyone recommends a really good behaviourist I might consider it, we’re in london. Can you really change your dogs temperament though? She’s not a young dog, maybe 5 or 6 but is highly strung and OTT as if she’s still a puppy. She’s also incredibly smart and obedient when she knows I have treats etc. It’s really annoying me as I should be paying attention to our new dog so he can be trained properly. He’s the most chilled out dog and is completely unphased by anything. Strangely my staffie gets on well with him and seems very submissive around him, he’s about three times her size!
Please help, I’ll never rehome unless I really couldn’t handle her which I can when she’s muzzled or on a lead.

I have two pit bulls as well. I will save you all the stories, but you must muzzle whenever around other dogs. If you can regime the second dog I would. You cannot leave them home alone together. I thought things had gotten better and out of the blue my aggressive dog(who is great with people) nearly killed my other dog. I have stiches all over my hands, had a nail surgically removed, and my dog spent 2 nights in a vet icu. I know you mean well by adopting a second dog, but the new guy is in mortal danger. Please give him back if you can and take good care of the guy you have and always keep him muzzled around others.

I have two pit bulls as well

I assume you aren't in the U.K. then.

@redrec

The majority of dogs are. Being aggressive towards other dogs isn't an indicator that they will be aggressive towards children.

Its always the people who don't have dogs who 'know everything about them and therefore know best' isn't it 🙄

@blisstwins blimey that sounds dreadful, hope you are all ok now.

@Fridaynight2021 pondering on it a bit I think there is a difference between dog on dog aggression and my spaniel killing squirrels.

As a working dog, my dog is killing squirrels to please me, she brings me the body, in soft mouth like a cat would bring in a mouse. Because I turn my back on her to send her a clear message that I’m unhappy with she oh so carefully digs a hole, lays the squirrel in it and gently covers it over.

She thinks she’s being a ‘good dog.’ There is no blood nor is there any aggression. It’s game because that’s what she’s been bred to do. She would never consider humans nor another dog as game.

It’s different behaviour to OPs situation where this dog is asserting it’s power over other dogs, probably in some sort of alpha, pack leader type demonstration.

This could sadly be transferred to another ‘lesser’ creature that it sees as challenging its dominance, including a child.

I guess all dogs depending on their situation and lived reality could attack in either way and the severity of outcome and damage it does would depend on the breed.

Muzzle and a lead every time she's out of the house now. Up her walks again and train, train, train. You can't just train a dog once. They need constant reinforcement, a few minutes here or there each day to keep the message in their mind. But please don't let your guard down. You know she's not safe to be loose around other dogs.

@MynameisWa there's a huge difference.

My 2 small dogs are terriers. Bred from working parents. They kill small furry things. They don't attack other dogs, people etc.

Your dog is using her natural instincts. Mine don't do it to please me. They do it to please themselves. It's what they've been bred for hundreds of years to do.

she approached rather impolitely, then they had a bum sniff and it seemed to be ok. I went over to put her on the lead as I didn’t want her to play while I had both dogs with me as it’s too much to handle. Before I had a chance to get her on the lead

This is your initial answer - sounds like she was not "friendly" towards the other dog. And then was triggered into old habits by yourself trying to put her on the lead.
She was already re conditioned to do so, from what happened at daycare. This really was only a matter of time.

Honestly, muzzle, lead and 1:1 walks with treats is the ONLY way. She has learnt the behaviour and will always be able to revert to it. Don't leave her with other people unless absolutely necessary, it's in her nature to respond to you above anyone else. Other people might have more experience or be actual difficult dog trainers, but it's down to you alone to keep her safe / in check.

My dog is too enthusiastic around other dogs and always wants to play so I keep him on a lead around other dogs and only let him play with dogs whose owners know he is full on and this is a dog who is always friendly. If you know your dog is rough you keep him on a lead near other dogs and only let him play with dogs whose owners know the score. It is not OK to let him loose on other dogs and hope for the best when you know there is a good chance he will be rough. I don't think it is your fault he is the way he is but you know he is that way and you cannot let him attack other dogs when you know that is a likely outcome.
I would keep him on a lead with other dogs and let him off lead in quiet areas without other dogs so he can run about to his heart's content there.

Ona side note you must ensure you don't leave dogs together alone if you go out,

@CharlotteRose90 this sounds similar to our situation. We don’t know her history but have done tonnes of work on her. I became an expert on her behaviour always watching for triggers, keeping her recall sharp and she improved immensely, we’ve been able to take her off lead now for 18 months and I stopped the muzzle as hadn’t shown any aggression in 18 months- I guess she will always have this in her and it will not go away even with another behaviourist.

@blisstwins strange how you get comfortable and then these things happen out of the blue. It’s disheartening. I don’t leave them alone together, they are in separate rooms as they tend to play too much amd can end up destroying furniture in the process but yea also because I can’t trust them completely so better to separate them.

@Anomelettefortheroad yes this where I went wrong, let my guard down. I always train her, I’ve never stopped, I was even training her yesterday while we were out. Her recall was sharp each time yesterday until I really bloody needed it. Lesson learned. Thanks for all the helpful comments, I enjoy hearing from people who have had bull breeds/ rescues. As we know, they are amazing dogs until they’re not.

We’ve always had ‘difficult’ dogs. Muzzle, lead and carry on. She sounds a complex, lovely dog.
Ours are always out with muzzles for various reasons and you’re just showing you know your dog well and being responsible for everyone when you use them.
As for the ‘what if that had been a child’ stuff, that’ rubbish. A dog can be dog reactive and fine with humans of all ages and temperaments.

*that’s

Id just walk the dog on lead and only let her off when no other dogs. My staffie has to be on lead around other dogs, but no need to be muzzled as shes fine with dogs that ignore her, but i cant allow her to play, as it can so easily turn to fighting.
It doesnt sound like your dog is outright aggressive, but definitely needs you to control her interactions better. She does not need to aporoach dogs she isnt already friends with or have them approach her.

This dog should be on a lead in public and should not be allowed to 'play' with other dogs. From your post this was just a matter of time.

In my experience you cannot change a dogs inherent personality. Staffies are well known for dog on dog aggression. Don't feel bad, it's nothing you've done wrong, it's just a very common trait of the breed and something that needs to be carefully managed.

Don't waste money on a dog trainer for this issue, because you won't ever be able to 'train' her natural instincts out of her.

I have a reactive bitch, I bred her so full history known! She is extremely nervous of other dogs, no amount of training or exposure has ever changed that. So I stopped putting her in the position of ever meeting an off lead dog. We do a mixture of private field hire so she can have a blast off lead and miles of street walking. I don't believe that strange dogs have to interact with one another, in fact more often than not it's a recipe for disaster.

I don't think it's a bad thing that you've got another dog at all. If the other dog is proving a calming influence on her then great. Just be aware that she could well turn on him if the conditions are right, so I would avoid any play between the two and also any activities that are going to get her razzed up.

I think you can definitely manage the situation with your girl, you just have to adjust your expectations of her around other dogs. The problem is she could be great 9 times out of 10 but you never know when she might turn. So for that reason, don't ever take the chance again.

I don’t really understand why when you’ve got a dog who is very clearly not up to mixing with strange dogs you’re expecting her to?

What you’re describing is a dog with poor dog social skills who gets overwhelmed and stressed and so then acts “aggressively” (I’m putting it like that because if there was no blood she hasn’t actually attacked the other dog, just gone, nope, get away a bit dramatically) but that’s what’s being going on the entire time you’ve had her.

You can work on recall, you can work on her threshold distances, but while you’re thinking of her as good with other dogs except... you’re doing her a massive disservice.

She’s not happy round other dogs, dogs don’t need to be, they do realistically need to be able to cope with other dogs doing their own thing in shared space, but they don’t need to interact with strange dogs.

And any time you introduce another dog to your house they should get separate walks and training...

@CasaBonita
Thats a great post esp 'I don't believe that strange dogs have to interact with one another, in fact more often than not it's a recipe for disaster'

I am working with my GSD puppy right now and have a great trainer and her position is that with any dog you get a bag of behaviours and its up to us to minimise the undesirable ones and polish the ones we want. That said some breeds have a propensity to certain things so I have to really make sure my GSD sees tons of people early to avoid stranger reactivity- however the breed is supposed to be slightly aloof so I work with that. Trainer also has one main point she always makes.

1. Set your dog up for success by minimising or avoiding any potential issues be it with people, other dogs etc. Dont give them the opportunity to have to use power/agression as they dont forget. So no off lead, no strange dogs, no play dates, no dog parks..

I fully accept my GSD will not be hanging out in dog parks or off lead- I am not going to try. Ideally he learns to ignore other dogs. There seems to be an obsession with the 'right' to be off lead in the UK.(I am not in the UK) hence all of these stories about attacks on other dogs. In my opinion every dog should be on lead when out. I hope the OP can go forward with her dog, its perfectly possible as long as its on lead and muzzled.

Have to say that I live in an extremely dog heavy area where many, many dogs are out and about meeting each other and I never see a staffie. Perhaps other staffie owners are going to great lengths to avoid dog owners, as recommended by @tabulahrasa. Makes sense to find routes that are off the beaten track.

She sounds like she has emotionally unstable personality disorder. She could attack children in the future.

Yet another violent pitbull with an irresponsible owner. I can’t believe the selfishness of people like OP who not only knowingly own aggressive dogs with a history of attacks but who then allow them off leash and unmuzzled! It boggles the mind. There are so many good dogs in the world who never get a chance due to resources being wasted rescuing and (unsuccessfully) rehabilitating aggressive pit bulls. It’s a tragedy.

A family member of mine throughout the years has had 3 Staffies, all were great with people but aggressive towards other dogs.
I really wouldn't trust a dog with these issues offl lead no matter how much training and progress was made. The potential damage to a much smaller dog really isn't worth the heartache.

Flame me all you want but I'd put that dog down. Aggression was bred into that dog and it was the breeders' fault rather than the poor dog. I simply wouldn't have a dog that was that aggressive with other dogs. It's a small step from being aggressive to another dog to being aggressive with a small child. There are thousands of dogs that would love a good home - dogs that wouldn't hurt anybody.

Having your dog attacked by an off-lead dog in a muzzle isn’t great either. Happened to my rescue boy and it left him with severe anxiety around the breed that did it.