My dog attacked a dog today

[Psychgrad]

I’m so down and shaken up all day from this.
Dp and I adopted our staffie from Battersea 2.5 years ago, she was difficult for the first year despite us putting her through rigorous training, she was aggressive towards other dogs (not reactive but started a lot of fights while playing). During the first lockdown, we saw a huge improvement in her or so we thought. I used to muzzle her but in the last year I’ve relaxed that as she’s been so good with other dogs (albeit rough and bossy, but good nonetheless).

Well she recently got thrown out of her daycare for pinning other dogs down, we put it down to the daycare being too busy for her so began fo work on training her around dogs (giving treats when she was polite around other dogs etc.). That was going well, her recall is amazing, everyone compliments it and says they wish their dog had recall like ours.

Then today all that changed, at first the walk was going well, I was practicing recall with her and our other new rescue dog (who is an angel), when next of all she attacked a dog out of the blue for absolutely no reason at all. I think the other dog wasn’t very interested in her as she approached rather impolitely, then they had a bum sniff and it seemed to be ok. I went over to put her on the lead as I didn’t want her to play while I had both dogs with me as it’s too much to handle. Before I had a chance to get her on the lead she just jumped on the dog and had to be pulled off by the owners of the other dog. No blood was drawn but I am really embarrassed and depressed by all of this. I thought we’d passed all of this behaviour. I think I might muzzle her from now on, we used to let her have the ball as she would hyper focus on that and if we didn’t have the ball, we’d just muzzle her. I think this is the best solution. We had two behaviourists when we first got her so I’m reluctant to find another one as they weren’t great tbh. One helped me with desensitizing her to things she was afraid of (people, bikes etc) but she was not great at dealing with aggression and seemed terrified of her even though my dog was terrified of her. The other behaviourist was more of a dog trainer and was very inconsistent/ lazy with her business. If anyone recommends a really good behaviourist I might consider it, we’re in london. Can you really change your dogs temperament though? She’s not a young dog, maybe 5 or 6 but is highly strung and OTT as if she’s still a puppy. She’s also incredibly smart and obedient when she knows I have treats etc. It’s really annoying me as I should be paying attention to our new dog so he can be trained properly. He’s the most chilled out dog and is completely unphased by anything. Strangely my staffie gets on well with him and seems very submissive around him, he’s about three times her size!
Please help, I’ll never rehome unless I really couldn’t handle her which I can when she’s muzzled or on a lead.

Speaking as someone whose dog has been on the receiving end more than once, keep your dog muzzled and on a lead.

And I'd stop the ball throwing. It's not good for reactive dogs.

OP, with all due respect, I don't care if your dog is great with children. The fact your dog shows aggression towards other dogs like this would mean I don't want your dog within 10 feet of my child, nor my dogs. The fact your dog pinned others down at daycare shows that muzzling won't be the solution alone either, you need to keep your dog on a lead as well. I agree with the poster who said warning signs were there, you should have been more careful from then.

It's great you've done lots of work in the past, but don't be disillusioned. Your dog has a variable history and can be aggressive. You owe it to your dog and others to keep her on lead and muzzled at all times when out in public.

How long have you had the second rescue dog? Re homing another dog with a reactive dog isn't fair on either of them. I think you're minimising the problems, getting kicked out of daycare for being aggressive, having to muzzle in the first place, lots of maybes and might be and we thought, serious, dangerous behaviours, clear red flags that you need to take more seriously. I've 2 rescue dogs, one has been attacked like this and is now reactive on lead, aggressive to our other dog, because he is so scared when we see another dog, its awful. They don't change. This dog doesn't sound safe around other dogs. Do you leave them alone in the house together, have they fought yet, a friend lost a dog when her reactive rescue killed the other, at home, while she was out.

My rescue dog used to be reactive. He attacked a dog also within weeks of having him. No blood or anything and both dogs ok. In our case he had been attacked previously by other dogs so was terrified and therefore played up. We worked on his confidence with other dogs and also training . It’s been 2 years and now he is let off lead in parks and will play with other other dogs no problems. Please find out the history if you can and work on her. If you can’t it’s a muzzle sadly. I wanted to give him up when he played up but I’m so grateful we kept him now.

It's interesting that she didn't draw blood , because, and I hate to say this, given the breed she is, if she meant serious harm, she would have all the tools to do it, iyswim. I think muzzling her would be the best option, it gives everyone breathing space when encountering other dogs.

It’s really hard when your lovely pet shows another side. Mine is like an angel. Like a little puppy, gentle as a kitten. Fawns over everyone and is full of love and cuddles.

But to small mammals, she’s an assassin. I worry one day that she’d pick up and crush a puppy in her jaws one day, just because I’ve seen her in action.

There would be no stopping her if that’s what she wanted to do although she has never shown any malice at all to other dogs at all. I just know she could if she wanted to and it’d be over in a split second.

Really all dogs are capable of ‘bad’ things. We’d all do good to remember it.

'rough and bossy' is not what I call 'so good with other dogs'.
She got thrown out of daycare -so you think it's a good idea to train her around other dogs and allow her off lead and without a muzzle?
After attacking another dog you only 'think I might muzzle her from now on'?
She might not have attacked a person yet but there's always a first time.
I'd not trust the dog at all and I'm sorry OP but I don't trust you as an owner either and hope to God I don't find myself walking my dog in the same park as you.

[quote Psychgrad]@Janeandjohnny I see your point, I really do and am taking it on board now. The reason I have been relaxed was because she had been so good in the past year or so and I thought the training had done miracles, I guess it took her down a notch or two but she’ll likely never change completely. I know that now and it makes me sad for her.[/quote]
You are welcome. You just change what you do from now on. You dont have to be sad for her, shes not sad. Its stressful for dogs when they have to fight and its our job to never put them in that position.

Do you focus in relaxing things too, such as licki mats, snuffle mats, bones, kongs and sniffing games? Helps to lower arousal.

Sometimes dogs are beyond help, kicked out of daycare, had multiple behaviour therapists and lots of training, according to OP, but still attacking other dogs unprovoked? Those poor owners must be so upset.

I agree it’s shocking you have been allowe to readopt, really hope that dog is safe

You have no idea what trauma she has been through before you got her. It’s like starting a book at chapter six.

Absolutely crazy to get another rescue when you knew there were issues with the first dog. I also don’t think she can be trusted around children. If she will go for another dog, there’s always a risk she could go for a child. It sounds like she should be muzzled and on the lead permanently when you’re out.

I don’t think people are being bitchy, I think they are being genuine and truthful with their thoughts. It’s all about consistency. I wonder whether you can’t give her the attention and time she needs if you have another rescue too.

You’re getting a very hard time from some perfect people here. I didn’t know that dog/dog aggression was a solid predictor for dog/child aggression? Is that the same for the PP whose dog kills squirrels? Presumably that dog would also kill a child given the opportunity? That’s terrifying

It’s very tricky when you have an unpredictable dog. You want to train to resolve the problem behaviour, and you can’t do that without exposure to other dogs and opportunities to interact. I guess the lesson here is that she can’t be trusted at that level and a muzzle is the way forward. But I wouldn’t say that anything you’ve written about before was saying that she already needed muzzling. She’s shown you now, thankfully there was no bad outcome. We can all play the ‘what if..’ game. Be kind to yourself where others aren’t.

@Fridaynight2021 after seeing my little squirrel assassin at play, it does make me think.

All dogs are capable of killing.

Mine is like a lamb and grovels around kids and people but I wouldn’t trust her or any dog 100 percent.

There is a difference though behind a small spaniels jaws and a Staffies. I would be terrified of being responsible for the OPs.

We have a nervy ddog (aged 2).. Carrying a rustling bag of treats keeps her focused on me rather than ddogs that make her anxious.. Rustle and treat before she sees a ddog stops her even reacting at all. Rustle and treat as we walk past. Ddog is so different to out with any of our other ddogs.

@MynameisWa 100% all dogs are capable of killing and I would certainly never leave a dog unsupervised with children. I’ve seen two dachshunds take down a muntjac by essentially disembowelling the poor thing. As a child I witnessed our cocker spaniel kill a chicken and goose. Dogs are capable of horrific violence, but as far as I’m aware dogs that are dog aggressive are not at a greater risk of human aggression (if they are well socialised, no history of human aggression and happy in human company).

Contact the rescue you got the new dog from, explain what has happened, that your other dog has become more aggressive, you aren't coping with being able to give them enough exercise now that you have 2 dogs to handle. Were you completely honest with the second re homing, did you present your household as containing an existing problem dog, that is too aggressive to be with others at day care and has had to be muzzled? And they thought placing another dog with you was ok? Honestly I wouldn't keep another new rescue now that this has happened, especially if you can't meet their needs exercise wise, its not working out. My first dog was attacked by a reactive staffie that was always muzzled, always had to be walked on lead. It broke the muzzle and dragged the owner down the street on the ground and slipped its collar to attack my pup. I went to the police. You'll see the dog again if you walk in the same places, what will happen next time, on lead or muzzled?

I hate to be another voice of doom but here goes: in the early 00's we had a neighbour with a very similar dog, it killed another neighbours cat and showed a lot of aggression towards other dogs. His owner didn't really take it seriously, didn't muzzle the dog. The worst happened and he bit a child. After that literally the entire community turned on my neighbour, nasty things through the letterbox, abuse in the street. In the end they had to move away. My point is that not only could your dog seriously hurt someone, there could also be serious, far reaching consequences for you and your family. There has been some great advice on here and I hope it helps you.

Our aggressive ddogs never once showed any aggression to a human or other animal.
She hated the majority of ddogs on lead.. Off lead no issues but decided not to chance it as she got bigger... And she did have a muzzle for busy ddog walking times. Was off lead every night for an hour on the beach.. She had quality of life. Which must be a consideration when keeping such a ddog....because rehoming isn't an option imo. Resign yourself, exhaust training methods, or sadly pts...

I love staffies, and I'm sure that she is a great dog in many other ways, but I do think that she needs to be kept on a lead and/or muzzled for now.

You have a staffie that attacked another dog without warning and you now 'might muzzle her from now on'

Are you fucking serious. There is no might about it.

You must muzzle her!

Dog on dog aggression is not a sign that a dog will randomly attack a small child. Believe it or not, dogs can tell the difference between other dogs and human beings, just a dog can chase and kill a cat but won't do the same with a toddler. Staffies in general can be quite dog unfriendly but are real people dogs.

I think you might just have to accept that she's not going to be the kind of dog you can have off the lead unless you can see a long way or one is who is able to greet other dogs. Get a high vis jacket for her or something that says 'Nervous' or something on the side and practice using your voice to shout to people to not let their off lead dog approach when she's on lead. Practice body blocking too when another dog approaches so she's not put in the situation where she has to be aggressive. You can invest in a long line too so she can have some more freedom but you can easily control her.

Dogs don't need to greet and play with other random dogs to have fulfilling walks. My dog is perfectly friendly but we avoid interactions with strange dogs regardless.

Dog on dog aggression is nothing to do with dog on human aggression. The same line trotted out every time 🙄

I have a dog reactive staffy x. He's fine with some dogs, he lives with 2 others and used to live with 4 others.

I know what sort of dogs he does and doesn't like. Saying that I walk him on the lead 99% of the time, unless in an enclosed field etc.

We go to quiet areas where there are large open spaces and I can see who / what is coming. He's 11 now so no changing him.

He's not a danger - he's simply a dog that wasn't correctly socialised as a puppy due to having shit owners.

He's managed to live for over 9 years without killing my small terriers or any small children. A miracle!

Personally I don't muzzle my dog as he's on the lead. If a dog runs up and does attack him, he needs to be able to defend himself.

I've had to pick all 4 stone of him up before as a rather determined French bulldog was intent on having a go at him. My dog didn't want to fight and kept turning his head away, but I'm sure his patience would have run out eventually and the other dogs owner was doing naff all the recall it.

I really think you need a behaviourist.
If she really had “attacked” then I don’t doubt there would be blood.
You need help to understand her behaviour and manage it.

These dogs are always 'great with children' aren't they?