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Original poster

my old dog with a dicky heart is going downhill fast...

29 replies

ScarletA · 17/12/2007 14:28

I don't know really why I am posting but I feel so upset and powerless. He is 14 and a large dog (lurcher x collie) so has had a good innings as they say but he was so healthy and happy until the last few months. He had this persistent cough and the vet diagnosed a heart murmur and put him on frusadale (which is a diaretic) and something else for his arthritus. The diuretic worked and his cough stopped almost entirely but now vet says he has an irregular heartbeat and has cut down the diuretics because they might have been causing it. He is now coughing again and looking very listless. I want to take him back to the vets but it just costs so much. Spent £300 in the last 2 weeks, money we can ill afford.

I also dislike our vet - she falls into the same catergory of 'professional' that dentists and mechanics fall into ie you have to believe what they say because you know nothing of the field but deep down suspect that they are just out to fleece you for all you're worth... Do you know what I mean? While we were there last time she looked in his ears (a bit grubby but not bothering him) and decided to open a packet of ear drops without even asking me and gave him a dose. We had to pay £21 for this small bottle, the contents of which I have not used as I don't think the dog needs it. After hearing his irregular heartbeat, she said he needed an ECG (at a mere £75) - what is the point of an ECG? All it tells you is that there is arrhythmia, surely?

What should I do? Want to take him to another vet but ours is exactly opposite our house and I bump into her all the time. Afraid to take him again today in case she makes me spend even more money on unecessary treatments. Should I just up the dose of diuretic to what it was before? Help!

OP posts:
NoChatroomAtTheInn · 17/12/2007 14:32

Really sorry to hear that your poor old dog is having difficulties.

If there is a good alternative do go to another vet. Don't worry about bumping into your usual vet. That's not important.

I used to go to a vet that I mistrusted in the way you spoke of. I know his main motive was selling his wares. Now I use a vet where I know that they are primarily motivated by the desire to give the dog the best treatment. It feels so much better.

You know your dog best so you are entitled to question the vet -- particularly with an older dog, for whom (however sadly) quality of life is more important than aggressive treatment of every malady.

MerryAnnSinglemas · 17/12/2007 14:36

no real advice to offer,except that I'd switch vets...poor dog,am so sorry - it's the really hard thing about having an elderly or sick pet - I'm sure you are doing the best for him.

Original poster
ScarletA · 17/12/2007 14:51

He seems to have gone downhill even today. Starting to feel panicky. The other vets round here is just as bad apparently - just interested in money. Am going to do some googling and see if that can help with my next move.

Just had to go down and check he was still alive. Jeez.

OP posts:
MerryAnnSinglemas · 17/12/2007 15:29

hope he's ok,poor love.

NoChatroomAtTheInn · 17/12/2007 16:21

I'm so sorry. I know how you feel, and Im sure you are doing all that is best for him.

Original poster
ScarletA · 17/12/2007 16:34

Took him to pick up the kids from school and he was well chipper. Maybe I'm panicking for nowt? He is old and doddery but 14 is a good age for a big dog. Trying to comfort myself here. Googling like mad but finding very little that helps.

Anyone out there know about dogs and heart conditions? Said vet also wanted us to buy blood pressure pills for dog at a mere £36 for 14!!!! Feeling guilty that we said no but are wondering - sneakily - if the ingredients in what she wanted to prescribe are the same as what they give to humans. My mum has some blood pressure pills which sound suspiciously similar to the one the dog was prescribed. Anyone had any experience of medicating a dog with human stuff??

OP posts:
oopsitisanimmaculateconception · 17/12/2007 23:14

I think there are two issues...

  1. you need to find a vet you can trust.. you can't carry on with one that you feel isn't acting in your dog's best interests.

  2. when you hear an arrythmia you can't always decide what is going on by listening. An ecg is very important to find out why the unusual rhythm is happening- or at least which part of the heart is involved. there is different treament for different types of arrhythmia.

Some fo the drugs are quite expensive- pimobendan is one fo the exensive one- so if she is offering this then I am not surprised about the cost.

at the end of the day it sounds like your dog is pretty poorly. Treatment can help with the signs of heart failure but can't always fix the heart, I expect that the rythm disturbance is a sign that he heart is getting worse.. so only you can decide how far you want to take it with your old mate.

Why not start with asking friends etc if there is another (3rd?) vet not too far away that you can get a second opinion. Hoepfully you will be able to trust them a little more and then can decide what to do next.

it isn't good for anyone (vet or otherwise) to advise you to change the dose of the meds without seeing the dog, i'm afraid.
And it would be really really not a good thing to start him on tablets that are made for humans- doses may be wildly different for one- but really it is not legal.

i do hoep you get some resolution here, but do bear in mind that somethign like this in a dog his age doesn't sound good

Good luck wth him- let us know how you got on

Original poster
ScarletA · 19/12/2007 16:42

Thank you everyone for you kind words and support. And thanks to immaculateconception for your advice - you sound like you're a vet (or at least very knowledgeable).

I took him to the horrid cow vet's across the road this morning because he coughed so much last night it was heartbreaking. Saw another vet at the practice who basically said the same thing as the cow - and you - and everyone basically. I just have not been allowing myself to 'hear' it - doing things like quibbling with the vets, googling, researching x y and z, basically putting off what I couldn't bear to come to terms with - that he is getting worse and that we need to just shell out the cash to make his last few ??? more bearable. Am more than happy to do this as now I realise that the end is coming. Can't help crying. Love him so much, had him years before the kids and he is such an old gent. Hopefully the blood pressure pills (benazacare) will take the strain off his heart a bit, make him more comfortable. Who cares about the money now.

OP posts:
smartiejake · 19/12/2007 17:31

Sending you a big hug[{{{{{}}}}! My old sheltie had a bad heart murmer for quite a while before he died at age 16. I feel for you as I know how horrid it is to listen to that heart conjestion cough. Our old dog had frusimide but also enalapril which really helped to start with. But it only helps for so long. Hope he stays comfortable and that the end is peaceful.

Original poster
ScarletA · 19/12/2007 17:33

Thanks . How long did it take? Trying to prepare myself here....

OP posts:
MerryAnnSinglemas · 19/12/2007 17:34

poor boy - keep him comfortable and let's hope he just slips away when he's ready- will be thinking of you and him- I do understand what it's like having been through it with own pets xxxxx

smartiejake · 19/12/2007 17:41

Hard to say as my old dog had other problems too ( strokes/ blind/ deaf/ arthritis etc.) I knew when the time had come as he stopped enjoying his food and cuddles- Give him lots of love. Hope he slips away peacefully.

oopsitisanimmaculateconception · 19/12/2007 22:56

Hi ScarletA, yes, i am a vet

i just thought I'd let you know that you can get prescription meds for animals from internet chemists.
You need your vet to write a prescription (they may charge for this) and then you need to fax/send it to the online pharmacy. they should be able to sort it out for you.
Hope that may help you with the costs.
and I hope your dog is feeling better soon

MerryAnnSinglemas · 20/12/2007 15:31

how is he doing today Scarlet ?

Original poster
ScarletA · 22/12/2007 10:23

Thank you all once again. He had a really bad night last night - coughing and coughing and coughing. I went down and sat with him for a bit and this seemed to calm him but not for long. This morning there were little patches of spit-sick on the carpet, he's done this on and off but never so much.

Immaculate - apologies for slandering your profession, you are obviously a nice vet . He is now on Benazacare (benzapril), 10mgs per day and Frusadale, 3 tablets daily (though vet suggested we drop the dose to 2 today as the blood pressure pills should have kicked in). But the cough just seems to be getting worse. In himself he seems remarkably smily - he chased his tail yesterday, something he does all the time and when out he does do a little run about and woof at other bigger dogs. This morning he was very waggy and jumped on the bed for a cuddle (quite an effort considering his rickety old legs). But he must be tired - I know I am - from the lack of proper sleep.

What me and dp are starting to ask is when should we be making that awful decision? It is so hard, especially now that it's almost Christmas. But also trying to decide if we should see the vet today or Xmas Eve in case there is something else they can give him to help with the coughing - but terrified of going too in case she tells us we should have him put down.

Please help. I don't know what to do.

OP posts:
MerryAnnSinglemas · 22/12/2007 11:13

this is awful for you Scarlet, more so it being Christmas...can't make any helpful suggestions - perhaps though to go to vet today. They may suggest putting him to sleep which will be unbelievably sad, but it might end his suffering. I suppose the thing is, and it's something we faced when one of our beloved dogs was put to sleep, was whether it was for his benefit or for our peace of mind - probably one and the same, but it's really difficult. I'm thinking of you and sending your dear boy a big hug.

plumandolive · 22/12/2007 17:38

Oh Scarlet- I've just read your thread and feel so much for you. The fact that he's still able to share a joke with you and respond means he's still getting enjoyment from life.
The vet should be able to tell if he's stilla ble to get something from life - you need to make it clear that you want to know if his quality of life is still reasonable- that's their profession after all.
Perhaps she could give him something to allow him to rest at night?
Really thinking of you.

smartiejake · 22/12/2007 18:55

So sorry scarlett that he is no better. It's so hard to know what to do with them when they still seem happy and wagging their tail.That cough is a killer. I remember it keeping me awake night after night. SOunds strange to say, but I used to hope for Jake to just go in the night so I did't have to make THE decision. ALl I can say is when the time comes, you will know. If he seems happy with a waggy tail that's quite encouraging.

Haven't really got any advice- thinking of you

MerryAnnSinglemas · 22/12/2007 21:28

plumandolive's advice is v good -really hope all is well this evening.

Sexmasonlegs · 22/12/2007 21:36

Oh Scarlet, I am so so sorry to read this. It is just awful having to make such a decision.

Whatever happens, it sounds as though he has had a wonderful life with you and your family.

CarGirl · 22/12/2007 21:44

just to add you will know when the time has come to let him go, he sounds a wonderful dog x

Desiderata · 22/12/2007 21:52

Dogs response extremely well to homeopathic treatment.

Now, obviously, at his age, the end is somewhere in sight ... but why don't you try googling homeopathic treatments? Dogs hate going to the vets, and if you can find something helpful that doesn't involve the trauma, then why not look into it?

When I had dogs, I would use websites for humans (not dogs), and halve the dose. Now, this always worked for skin disorders, external diseases, etc., but I've never tried it on complaints of old age.

But it's worth a try ... for £3.50 a bottle that'll last you twenty years!!

BJB21 · 22/12/2007 22:09

ive been filling up reading this thread!How sad. POOR LITTLE THING.

MY dog is old too(almost 13) and he has epilepsy. I have often thought that the vets are fleecing us too! costs us a fortune. They advised an mRI scan a while back to check for a tumour which would cost up to £1000 even though they would be unlikely to operate!

Thankfully our dogs still going strong.Hope you dog is ok.x

smartiejake · 23/12/2007 10:20

My mum kept one of their dogs going for 18 months after the vet had said there was no hope using homeopathic medicine. Might be worth a try.

beautifulgirls · 23/12/2007 10:52

Scarlet - you need to look at what makes a quality of life good for your dog. Things like eating, greeting you when you come home, exercise (within reason with a heart problem) etc. You then need to decide at what point you draw the line as his ability to enjoy these starts to fail. If you are crossing that line then you know it is the time we all dread when the decision to be made is the kindest one. It is a really hard situation to be in as an owner - so many emotions flying about wanting to do the right thing but such sadness and guilt too. I have an old dog myself who was very poorly a few weeks ago and I came very close to saying goodbye too so despite standing on the vet side of the table most of the time, I can very much relate to the owner side too. I am lucky that my dog responded well to treatement for now - but it is only a matter of time too.

What size of dog is he and what dose of the frusacare does he have? Perhaps that could be increased to try and help the coughing but would need to know the weight and dose first, and despite what you may be told by me or anyone else you should only change the dose in the knowledge and agreement of your vet first too - though a phone call may suffice here. Has the vet offered any other medications? "Vetmedin" may also be useful for him, but is sadly a reasonably expensive drug to give - I think the last patient I put on that worked out about 90p a day for that one - cost will depend on the size of the dog and the fees charged by your vet. It is not by any means a cure, but works in a different way to the other two drugs he is on. You could also ask your vet for a written prescription for it and find it cheaper elsewhere if you think your vet costs seem very expensive?

Good luck

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