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Original poster

It has finally happened & I'm heartbroken. One of our dogs has bitten Ds1....... :0(

109 replies

LadyOfTheFlowers · 05/03/2007 10:46

As some will know, I have two female black labradors. They have always been fine with the kids, no probs at all.
When my ass was turned this morning, for a minute, ds approached one of them, crouched down to pet her and she lashed out and nipped his arm. I am pretty sure which one it was as she is sulking now and wont move.
I feel partly responsible as I don't take them out as often as I should, it's not easy. They are so strong and with the twin buggy it is a nightmare. They are very intelligent and energetic and I think she is probably frustrated.
I called dh and he said seperate them from the kids obviously and we will discuss when he gets home.
Anyone had any experience of this?
I'm totally heartbroken.

OP posts:
Original poster
LadyOfTheFlowers · 05/03/2007 14:30

he has been taught not to poke/pinch but just lately he is testing boundariesin all depts.
i think he probably did something her.

OP posts:
sniff · 05/03/2007 14:32

I honestly dont know I know they like being in pairs but if they get enough family attention they seem to become one of the kids Its heartbreaking isnt it

Is she due to come into season because they can get a bit ratty at that time

for what its worth she probably didnt mean to hurt and she obviously feels guilty

oops · 05/03/2007 14:34

Message withdrawn

Original poster
LadyOfTheFlowers · 05/03/2007 14:35

she is still sulking now.
she has been 'done; but still gets the funny symptoms, like lying on her own etc but usually at the start of the month.

OP posts:
clumsymum · 05/03/2007 14:35

Then Lady I would think twice about parting with her.

Keep an eye on them over the next few days. How old is DS? Old enough to learn from this?

Original poster
LadyOfTheFlowers · 05/03/2007 14:40

no i was not expecting this at all.
they are fantastic dogs. i said what i said as ds can be a testing little bugger. they put up with a lot from him. i dont mean i let him hurt them and totally disrespect them but sometimes he wants to play etc and they dont.

OP posts:
oops · 05/03/2007 14:42

Message withdrawn

sniff · 05/03/2007 14:42

I would think twice about getting rid o her to and keep a close eye on her I know I shouldnt say this but maybe she was provoked a bit

all the best

Original poster
LadyOfTheFlowers · 05/03/2007 14:47

yeah sorry not every month, but every 3or four months but it is always right near the beginning of said month. the other one doesnt get it at all.

OP posts:
Pannacotta · 05/03/2007 14:50

Havent read all posts so sorry if I repeat anything...
I dont have dogs - we have two cats- but I would perhaps see how it goes before making any decisions, esp since it was a nip and not a serious bite, that would be different. I really don't think it is grounds for having a dog put down, that would be very extreme esp as you dont know which one it was. Also they are not agressive dogs which normally cause probs. It does sound like they might need more exercise to stop them getting frustrated (not that I am an expert). I would personally try and aim for happy co-existance if at all poss...

bambi06 · 05/03/2007 14:52

weve always had labbies and they have ben totally trustworthy but when they were older and sometimes in pain with arthritis tehy would give a warning growl if someone came near to his paws as they were sore..which to me is understandable and im on dogs side!!labbies VERY rarely will bite for no reason and even to bite at all is pretty uusual for them..if its the one thats not got problems with the hip maybe the dog was protecting the other one for fear of her getting hurt..they must be both pretty close..

JodieG1 · 05/03/2007 14:54

Personally I'd rehome both dogs together. If the dog has done it once then that's a warning in my eyes and I wouldn't risk anything happening to my children. What if, god forbid, the dog does it again and this time it's serious? It's just not worth the risk imo. Dogs can be unpredictable and no amount of training will change that.

NorksBride · 05/03/2007 16:44

I think you need to talk to DH about why the dog snapped. You said 'DS approached one and crouched down to pet her' - are the dogs guarding their hallway territory or is DS often mean to them? Or is she just grouchy?

I would look at doing an evening obedience or agility class. Personally, I wouldn't have separated dogs and children whilst in the house but since you have I'm not sure how best to proceed.

I would also ensure that they are exercised for an hour a day - even if it means getting up at 5am to walk them on your own before your DH leaves for work. And I'd give them another short walk in the evening. Even better is to play games with them in the garden during the afternoon especially if your DCs are still napping.

Our Great Dane once snapped at DD1 because she ran across his feet in her new shoes whilst he was asleep. They were both surprised and it hasn't happened again. That was over 4 years ago. The family needs to learn how to get on with each other as a single unit.

If you can provide the exercise they need then I wouldn't rehome. Unless they do it again ofcourse...

magnolia1 · 06/03/2007 17:36

Lady, how are things today?

I have 2 dogs and have always said if one of them ever bit they would have to go but it's easier said than done and I don't really know what I would do to be honest.

My eldest dog (nearly 3) will growl if one of the kids is too heavy handed and they know to leave her alone if she growls. In my opinion dogs that growl are just giving the normal warning that we would give if another person was doing something we didn't like. A nip is obviously more serious but still a warning and not an attack.
Deffinately a vet check, dogs get quite snappy when unwell. Also if a all possible you can afford it maybe contact a behaviorist but make sure they are adpt certified xxx

SweetyDarling · 06/03/2007 18:35

Very few kids who grow up with dogs will make it toadulthood without a nip. Kids are rough and dogs have no other way to protect themselves. That said, I think growing up with dogs is an invaulable benefit for kids.
If your dog had wanted to really hurt your son she could have - she didn't. Sounds like a very minor incident to me.
You really have to ask yourself what your son's intention was when he approached the dog when your back was turned - toddlers usually save their most mischeivous ideas for moments like these.

aol · 06/03/2007 19:00

I once had a lab from a friend who couldn't cope with a dog and a baby. Somehow I went on to have another baby and keep the dog - thus ending up with two dogs and three young children. My old Weimar bitch was fine with the lab and the children and all was hunky dory till one day the lab - aged about a year/eighteen months - leapt at the bitch, right at her jugular and went for me when I tried to pull him off. I still have a scar on my wrist. There was no growl, no warning and she and I were both bleeding. I rang the vet who said that a lab should be docile and never bite and that a 'rogue lab' who went for a bitch (the top dog) and then for me (the boss!!) was a no no. She also said that it was probably at puberty that the aggressive side came out.

I rang the original owner who found a beater who was looking for a lab to take hunting. He was very smug when he took Asterix and said "He is a working dog, he shouldn't be in a family home" as though it was our fault that he had done this. (A labrador?!) He was walked for an hour each day, btw.

I heard a few months later that he had badly bitten a dog on the field and had then taken a chunk out of the man who tried to separate them. He was shot there and then.

I am telling you this because I think that thtee is a world away from my dog and my experience and yours. But I think that they definitely need exercise and to know who is boss. One of the most effective ways to discipline a dog is to take her ruff and shake him/her when they growl at someone or something. Apparently the paws lifting from the ground is disarming and they hate it. A couple of obedience classes, hassle as they are, might be helpful and worth it if it is that or rehoming.

We now have another lab - have had him for ten years now. He is as gentle as a lamb.

Good luck.

Original poster
LadyOfTheFlowers · 06/03/2007 23:00

thanks all.
i have been told by someone in rl that a bad lab can be really bad.
everything is fine. no problems at all today. she sulked for the whole day yesterday after the incident and didnt move from by the front door till dh got home. she knew she was wrong and didnt dare move.
i think ds probably did something to her as i said he is testing boundaries lately. he knows not to pinch/poke/bite(!) them. i know if he is going tobe spiteful ashe always looks to me first ro see if i am watching. callous as it may sound to some, i dont think he will do whatever he did again.
to a certain degree he gets confused i think. the one with dysplasia loves attention of any kind- hugging, being sat on, etc etc. she rolls over and laps it up. i think he gets them mixed up.
usually if he gets a bit carried away they yelp and recoil so he must have hurt her.
i am not saying i let him hurt them btw- he knows what he can and cant do but is re-testing things atm.
i agree with what was said about no child getting thru without a nip and the pleasure of growing up with a dog. i want him to have them as companions. when he snuggles up against them and falls asleep they wont move and wake him.
i honestly think he overstepped the mark and i dont think he will do it again.
if anything happens, its on my head, but as i said, i know i am to blame for her behaviour.

OP posts:
brimfull · 06/03/2007 23:12

when I was training our dog ,i used to get my dd to feed her by hand.It was a way of establishing the hierarchy in the house,the dog needs to know that your ds is above him., I involved dd in all the dog training so her status in the dogs eye was above his .

Apologies if you've already done all this.

Original poster
LadyOfTheFlowers · 06/03/2007 23:30

never though of that. will get ds to do some feeding- he loves that!

OP posts:
SherlockLGJ · 06/03/2007 23:49

I trust my collie implicitly with my DS. If he hurts himself, she comes running from another room to check he his gettting attention.

One bite and lovely as she is she would be rehomed. She has tolerated, being pulled and pushed and kissed in a most inaprotiate manner[sp] for a dog.

WriggleJiggle · 06/03/2007 23:58

Oh poor you, thats such an awful situation to be in. You know your dogs best, and I'm glad you have decided to keep them. You would certainly have had to rehome both together. A bite is very different to a nip. If the dog had wanted to hurt ds properly it could have easily drawn blood. As it was your dog tried to give a warning. And as you say, ds probably tested the boundaries too far.

Your priority is to establish a pecking order.

  1. Get ds to feed them, he puts the food down and they wait for him to give the command to start.
  2. Go through doors and gates first.
  3. Play ball with ds in control (as much as possible for his age).
  4. Get ds to do simple training - doesn't need to be any more complicated than sit, lie down, come, give, with ds giving the treat each time. Anything that means he has a higher status.

Your dogs need an 'escape hole' where they can do if they want to escape the noise and movement. Under the bed? A dog cage (the largest size is big enough for our two labs).

ds should be able to remove toys from them without a struggle, but please never get him to remove food from them. Whilst ideally that should be possible, its not a fair game to play. Demote dogs to the floor rather than sofas.

Sorry, very long and waffly. You can make it work. Congratulations for having the guts to do it.

Rochwen · 07/03/2007 09:26

I'm sorry to hear this has happened but don't panic ! There is no need to destroy or re-home the dogs. She didn't bite him to hurt him she 'disciplined' him, he probably did something she didn't like and she told him off in a dog way, unfortunately dogs do that by nipping. I think both your ds and your dog will have learned a lesson, I don't think it'll happen again.

I think JiggleWriggle's post is spot on. DS needs to stand ABOVE both dogs in the pack hierachi [sp] and this needs to be established pretty much like Jiggle has suggested. Also, can I stress this point as well. When ds and dogs are left alone they ALWAYS need a way of escaping ds should he annoy them. If they can't escape they will defend themselves.

Again, I'm sorry this has happened but don't do anything your might regret later. I don't think your dogs are vicious.

Good Luck !

Rochwen · 07/03/2007 09:31

It's wrigglejiggle not jigglewriggle, sorry.

Original poster
LadyOfTheFlowers · 07/03/2007 11:58

thanks.

you have given me other ideas as to how to put ds higher than the dogs.
when you try and think of ways to do it itis difficult.but simple,small things suffice.

the stair gates i think have given her a bit of 'im better than you attitude'.
i have always opened it, held ds back whilst they go thru, then let him thru. purely because if i let him first he gets 2 feet the other side then they rush thru and knock him over.
i cant believe i didnt spot my mistake. i feel so stupid!!

OP posts:
Bananaknickers · 07/03/2007 12:12

our dog nips my kids all the time. Never breaks the skin. I asked the vet about it. She said he is challenging them and wants to be top of the pack ( he does it when he is over excited and playing). She suggested letting the children feed the dog and give him commands ect. He now takes commands from my 4 year old even when she feeds him.When he is naughty with them It is important that they tell him off also.He is such a sweetie with the kids most of the time now. He is only 9 months old though and still learning the rules.