dogs at school gates

[southeastastra]

hi im really livid but would like to hear all sides.
took my ds4 to school this morning - outside the school (not in school grounds) someone had tied up a dog I would say it was a cujo type dog (sorry dont know much about breeds). It was tied right by the entrance that we have to go in which is very small and also the nursery entrance.

im not saying this dog is dangerous it just looked big and to my son scary. I am so fed up of people taking these animals, even tied up, to the school.

Am i over reacting? my son is scared of dogs, and i have tried to tell him they're nice etc, but this is now getting on my nerves, it seems so irresponsible for parents to do this, should i call school? this dog was not on the school grounds but very near!

Thanks Im just so angry.

ooh that sounds interesting wannbe-yes please. I'm in Devon. I think the closest RNIB guide dog training is in Bristol??

I should contact the RNIB, after all it is the Irish equivalent that runs the Irish scheme, but I have a feeling they have problems training enough dogs to meet the requests for guide dogs for the blind, let alone taking on autism as well! Having said that I think the training for an autism dog is closer to the training required for a guide dog for the blind, than an assistance dog for the physically disabled (which is what dogs for the disabled do).

The person from Dogs for the Disabled explained that if I looked into training myself the dog wouldn't be officially recognised as an assistance dog (fair enough) and therefore wouldn't have the same access rights to shops etc (which would be a shame).

the dog wasnt barking it was just sitting there but looked quite scary, if it wasnt right by the entrance i could have just avoided it, but we had to pass right by it to get into the school.

i understand dogs are part of life, and if an owner sees my son is scared of their dog, they often stop and let him stroke the dog etc.

the dog was on its own, it was tied up, but it could still move! my son has a problem with i dogs, i cannot help him overcome his fears overnight situations like this morning take us two steps back.

i appreciate that you are all responsible owners, but i cannot truely say that about all owners.

If a dog is tied up outside a shop, we can avoid it if we want, we cannot avoid going in to school.

The OP said that the dog was tied right by the entrance which is also the nursery entrance. Young children can be afraid of dogs. I think it's irresponsible of dog-owners to force children into such close proximity with their pets. The kids have no choice but to go through the entrance.

I have always been a dog owner but I would never take my dog to the school. Now, at home he withstands all kinds of stuff from my kids, teasing, dressing him up (until rescued by me obv). But he is used to my kids (and a lot of visiting kids) and their reactions to him are on the whole predictable.

Who knows what a child, who might be unfamiliar with dogs might do, that might provoke an untypical reaction from my dog.

Just too many variables and unnknowns.
It's just not worth taking the chance imo.

as the parent of a toddler who is petrified of animals (don't know why .. don't understand it) I think its irresponsible in the extreme to tie an animal outside a school

NOT EVERYONE LIKES YOUR PET YOU KNOW

You're over reacting.

I think if the dog is well behaved and not jumping up or barking, then it's not a problem. I wouldn't take our puppy and tie him up as he whines when he can't see me and is inclined to get over excited (11 months old) he's also big, i think i would be irresponsable to take him. But no, i can't see the harm in a dog who is just placid and calm just sitting there tbh.
In fact it may be an oppurtunity to show your son that dogs can be very gentle and calm "look sweetheart, look how good that dog is being" etc. Just a thought, obviously it's always hard if your child is distressed by something.

"But it would help if dog owners could occasionally recognise that shouting 'he won't hurt you' as their dog bounds disobediently over 100m of park to lick your child is, dare I say it, inflammatory to the parent who is trying to allay general terror of dogs in their child."

Difficult one, this. I agree with you, but... I walk my dog in an area that includes a field (nominally a sports field, but the most I've ever seen is a couple of teenage boys having a kick about) and a small, enclosed play area (swings etc). 330 days of the year, there will be no one but dog owners in that field - and only once or twice a year will I see children in the play area. So I and other owners have their dogs off the lead coming up to the field. No one is realistically going to keep their dog on a lead on the remote off-chance that there are children about.

On one occasion, my dog was happily ignoring a small girl, until she started running in the other direction - which obviously triggered his predatory senses and he ran after her. He did only want to play, but I appreciate she didn't know that. I would have caught him and put him on the lead if I'd been fast enough. So then you have a dilemma: if you run after your dog, he thinks it's a game and won't come back to you and will carry on cavorting round said child; if you walk off and wait for him to follow you (which he will), the parents are going to go apoplectic.

Yes, I appreciate that a dog should be better trained than that - but terriers are bred for independent hunting and aren't terribly biddable.

What bothers me, even as a dog-friendly person, is these great slavering Rottweilers or Alsatians (or other dogs of a similar size) pulling hysterically on a lead, when the man holding them can hardly keep them back. With a dog that size, you have to rely on them knowing that they're subordinate - and I'm not sure that some I've seen do.

Aside to Alicemama: Not wishing to intrude, but has your puppy has his second lot of jabs? I've always understood that they shouldn't be out until then (i.e. three months) - but your breeder may have done things slightly differently.

Yes he had them on monday morning...poor little mite, he looked at me as if I was the most\evil woman in the world but soon forgotten

Here the RNIB and guide dogs for the blind association (GDBA) are two separate charities. I’d imagine you’d actually fall under the Exeter banner but does depend on where in Devon you are, but I fall under Bristol, and the trainer I have in mind is in Bristol. You’re right in that they’re currently under resourced and that there is quite a long waiting list for guide dogs (I waited a year for my replacement dog), but that being said, a number of qualified guide dog trainers have recently been made redundant by the organization due to the closure of the residential training centres. Why not try and put the skills of said redundant guide dog trainers to your advantage, and instead of calling on the resources of an already overstretched organization, try to utilize the skills of someone who is currently not using them and start an organization for autism dogs in its own right? After all we have dfd, and hearing dogs, and gdba, so why not start an organization called AAD (autism assistance dogs). After all, autism is something that is very well-publicised in the media, and coupled with dogs I think that, although it would be hard initially, funding would be obtainable with some hard work and publicity.

I thought about this all the way to and from preschool and have lots of thoughts on the matter. And I’d be happy to help in any way I can, if you’re interested then I can put them down here or in a separate post or you can email me at [email protected]

RedZulieka- well said re: "it's ok he won't hurt you" to my mind the first thing to say in that situation is to reassure child and parents that he is freindly, equily agree it doesn't make it any easier on the child who doesn't know why a dog is running after her.
Oh and Spook (our weimaraner puppy) is really big, and you're right it is vital to keep dogs like him under control so we have been very. very strict with him, i've actualy been told i'm abusing my dog because i pulled him and told him to sit very firmly, yet i'm sure the person would have gone mental if i'd have done nothing and let spook jump up at him!...sigh you can't win can you? :)

wannabe- that sounds a really good idea, the over-stretched resource thing was the reason I didn't contact them, but if there are trainers being laid off......

DS2 and ds3 are back from nursery/childminders now, but I will email you this evening.

wannabe, sorry to butt in here - I'm also interested in this, my daughter has a learning disability and is very prone to running into the road without a care in the world, that sort of thing.
Can I email you too please? I'm not at all local (I'm in N. Yorks.) but maybe your contacts know someone up here.
We've just got a puppy actually (golden retriever) and getting him trained to be 'useful' would be fantastic.

of course! email any time :)

tbh thinking about this I do think, southeastra, that you are at once over-reacting and being reasonable. ie I think it's a reasonbale request that dog owners tie their dogs up a good few feet away from the entrance, so kids who are a bit scared or whatever can feel that they can keep a "safe" distance. But I think it's over-reacting to be angry and fed up with people even taking dogs to school. It's presumably the case that the dog owner is a dog lover and rather than being inconsiderate, selfish, mean people deserving of approbium, they are probably just a bit thoughless - literally ie the problem has not occured to them. I don;t think this is a big issue at all. All you need to do is next time you see the mum in question, explain to her in an entirely unconfrontational way that your ds is a bit scared and could she possibly tie him up a bit further from the gates.

this is something that really bugs me, i have a serious allery to dogs and need adrenline injections should one touch me, so i have to put my life on the line to get passed any dogs at the school gates, when people say it won't hurst you i try not to reply it may just kill me, i dont mind people taking dogs to school but i think they should be away from the main gates.along with the smokers

im fed up with it because the safety wall seems to be the place where everyone leaves their dogs, of course i am not worried about all dogs, just the scary type that seem to in fashion around here.

i think i will talk to the other mums to get their views. i do actually like dogs!

i dont think i will get a reasonable conversation with the owner, may be generalising but they will probably start an argument, and dont really want that with my son with me.

I am a dog owner and sometimes DH takes our dog when picking up the kids. However I agree with teh OP for the sheer fact the dog was TIED UP, The owner was not in sight or in control of said dog. When we take the dog to the school gates she is on teh lead, helpd by dh, she cannot get away. I have taught my kids not to approach dogs they don't know if they are tied up as you JUST DON'T KNOW there are totally irresponsible dog owners out there who would leave a potentially nasty dog tied up outside a shop or wherever.

If you take your dog to shcool it must be where you don't have to leave the dog to drop the child, and where you can drop the child away from the gate so the dog doesn't get all over excited at the ammount of kids, this makes dogs jump up and bark just for fun, which can be worse for some people. We are lucky our school is in teh middle of a heath so it is only footpaths for the last 100m so we can drop off a little away from the gate safely

Serenity - point taken

JimJams, it would be great if you get somewhere with this, let us know how you get on?

SEA, My experience of asking owners to move teir dogs has been only good, however I had adog withn me which I suspect helped my cause a little. Would it be possible to speak to the head and suggest that they request dogs are not left right in the entrance, tbh I think that it is just bad manners if they are right outside and the head may be interested if they kbow it causes a problem for anyone.

Blu, it is sad that there are a proliferation of badly trained dogs, it would be easier for all of us if that was bot the case - I got bitten myself last year and still have huge scars to prove it, sadly by an uncontroled dog (surprise surprise)

Hatwoman, I agree that children should be educated also, I think I have said before about my rules for approaching (or not approaching) dogs. I think it is a case that people with dogs need to be sensible and so do people with kids IYSWIM if everyone took more responsibility then I am sure there would be less trouble, however I am led to believe that this is a Eutopian world that is not achievable

being licked by dogs is , in my opinion, revolting. Who would want to be licked by a dog?

just responding to a point in Spooks' posting earlier - which implied that being licked by a dog would be a wonderful experience. I personally find it repulsive and I would probably kick the dog's head in. I have witnessed far too many unpleasant incidents involving dogs and humans to entertain any other opinion.

sorry dog lovers.

yes kicking a dog's head in would probably count as an unpleasant incident between humans and dogs....

also agree with twiglett - yes lots of people love dogs but some of us do not.

yup - and no regrets.
A friend of mine's son was attacked by some bloody great dog last year and she whacked it over the head with a brick and killed it.
Good riddance.
or would harsh language be better?!

Agree that children who are scared of dogs do have to learn about them, but as a parent, if you want to familiarise your kids with dogs the way to do that would NOT be with some stranger's dog that you don't know and that's been left tied up alone outside school. So I don't really think that the importance of kids getting used to dogs can be used as an excuse for leaving dogs in a place where children will be frightened getting past.

I grew up scared of dogs and was lucky enough to get used to them as an adult (through getting to know a lovely Irish wolfhound with a serious bad breath problem, and living with a German family with a mad sex maniac black labrador) so while I'm not freaked out these days if one bounds up to me in a park I am still constantly surprised by how inconsiderate SOME (not all) dog owners are.

yes I think hitting a dog when it's attacking you is OK - not when it's licking you though however unpleasant that may be, and all dogs are not the same. MANY more dogs are hurt by humans than the other way round. Am afraid I have a real sense of humour favour when it comes to violence towards animals (and people for that matter) especially giving children the idea that it's OK behaviour. I'm sure you're not really going to kick a dog's head for licking you are you?

however, dogs shouldn't be tied up outside the school gates IMO and I don't expect everyone to love them either.