Should universities give clearer information on degree career routes and prospects?

[LyndallMay]

Parents of university students or applicants, would you have wanted to know this before they chose their degree?
I have started a UK Parliament petition asking universities to give prospective students clearer information before they enrol or become financially committed.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/776439
Require universities to explain degree career routes and job prospects
The petition asks for students to be told about the full career route connected with a degree, including what the degree does and does not qualify them to do, any further training, examinations, professional requirements, work experience, time and costs.
It also asks for clear and recent information about realistic graduate employment prospects, including where entry level roles may require previous experience.
This is not about guaranteeing anybody a job or discouraging people from university. It is about giving students the full picture while they still have a genuine choice about their degree and career route.
If you agree, I would be very grateful if you would sign and share it.
IMPORTANT: After signing, please check your email and click the confirmation link sent by UK Parliament. Otherwise your signature will not be recorded.

A. Just because that was your experience doesn’t mean it is everyone’s.
B. Non-graduate unemployment is even higher.

So just because it didn’t help you, you are applying that to all graduates from non vocational degrees? Come on, it doesn’t work like that.

If we’re using personal experience of the labour market than my experience is the complete opposite of yours. My non vocational degree definitely helped me get a graduate level job and progress my career.

However, I’m not using anecdotal information I’m drawing upon years and years of working with labour market information and having to understand the graduate labour market. The current challenges in the graduate labour market are not because people are studying non vocational degrees. I can tell you that for a fact.

We do have a surplus of graduates but that is partly due to there being limited employment opportunities for young people as well as higher education being promoted as the gold standard for level 3 students. But actually the biggest challenges are to do the increasing cost of hiring someone ( increase in NI etc), increased costs more generally, advances in AI and a volatile geopolitical environment ( increase on defence spending mean reduced sending elsewhere).

It is a very challenging employment market at the moment but it’s not because students choose history over nursing.

I think the IFS study showed some non vocational academic degrees add less value to the degree holders than others. It can make a big difference how far someone is into their career too and what they want. There’s definitely been a swing away from degrees like English. These were competitive at many good universities but not so much now.

It’s way overstated what some degrees teach you that’s valuable for work too. There are now other skills needed such as clear speaking, good listening and personality - don’t be boring! Dc need to stand out because the degree mostly won’t do that when so many have them .

All degree holders from a given course (eg History) have near enough the same critical thinking (hopefully), essay skills and general academic abilities because the vast majority get a first or a 2:1. So other skills sort out who gets a job and who doesn’t. Desire and getting a far better cv make a huge difference. Just doing the degree is not enough but plenty think it is!

Also I’d bet a big sum of money nurses find it far easier to get a job than any history grad. The employment rates on nursing degrees is stellar. History is much more about what extra skills and attributes you have in addition to the degree.

Are you suggesting you know what employers want more than the employers themselves?

There’s currently a recruitment freeze in most NHS trusts so I wouldn’t be so confident about that bet!

Hope you have deep pockets! https://www.rcn.org.uk/news-and-events/news/uk-nursing-students-face-unemployment-despite-nhs-vacancies-270826

No it doesn't meanthat, that will be all graduates experience, but it is still nstronger than hearsay. So many people make a living from the education sector- so the support of huge debt to gain a degree is often not objective.
I loved doing my degree, it was hugely valuable personally . I use the critical thinking I learned every day- but that does not change the fact it never helped me get a job, most of my friends from university also had the same experience.
Non-graduate unemployment is not much higher, would you rather have £30-40K debt and a slightly higher chance of getting a decent job, or no debt and a slightly lower one?

It’s a debt you don’t pay if you’re not earning. You’re in your 60’s - do you not think things may have changed very slightly in 40 years?

And grad employment and salaries are still much higher than non-grads.

I also think people get hung up on graduates getting jobs that are directly related to their degree subject. That’s not the case for most graduates and is actually the norm. It’s not a sign of failure or that people are doing useless degrees, it’s not recognising the wider skills that university can teach you which are actually what most graduate employers want.

@titchy They are higher, but not for every grad. That’s the issue. The grad premium has come right down for lifetime earnings too. You would expect that though as grads are not as rare as hens teeth! It’s so important to choose the right degree, the right uni and prepare for work and those job applications. There are some degrees the IFS found were not worth it fiscally but that’s the grad premium. A low salary means little in terms of loan repayments so it’s still a cheap education if you loved the degree! Depends how important work is and money to support yourself and a family.

Yes, a million times.

I wouldn’t disagree! There will always be outliers whatever we’re talking about. The Oxford History of Art grad who spends the rest of their life earning nothing while living off daddy’s trust fund, or Richard Branson who makes billions despite being a non-graduate.

In the magic circle firms perhaps. I never wanted to do commercial law.

Im in a top 100 firm, in EC4 not a commercial firm and we are specialists / niche in the areas we do.

I came from a very working class background and so did many of my colleagues. We make a habit of offering work experience to state school pupils and taking uni students for it from low income backgrounds.

Not all lawyers are as you describe. If you go after magic circle maybe but there are other options and most wont have a cat in hells chance of getting into MC firms.

@PleaseDontAskThats also not true. If dc are good enough, from any background, they can access the high salary firms, including MC. However they have to shine because they only take 100 or less from thousands of applications and should never ever be told they are not good enough! Yes, the application process is onerous but they pay for internships and there’s no bar to applying. They simply don’t aim high because local firms have taken pity on them.

I don't work in a local firm and never did.

You misunderstood my post.I meant nobody has much of a chance at a magic circle firm even those who went to the most expensive private schools.

@LyndallMay clearly has an axe to grind and knows very little about university study or universities more generally.

A very silly petition.

Only another 9,950 signatures needed

If OP gets her way and universities have to provide all this information (🙄), English degree information will have to include Prime Minister now, otherwise it will be out of date.

It’s got 50 signatures. I think Andy Burnham’s job is safe

@PleaseDontAsk I agree. The odds are poor!

These days I teach , I speak to many recent graduates and TBH it does not sound like things have changed that much.
The rules have been tightened on repaying student loans and will definitely be tightened further.

You don’t think the student finance system has changed in 40 years?! Have you been living under a rock?!

If you read my post I say exactly the opposite- that the finance has been changed at least twice and will be changed further in future.

That’s not what you said…

The wider data trumps your personal experience. Surely you can see that? Most degrees are opportunities to learn project management, working to deadlines, resilience, communication, following instructions, research, analysis, critical thinking, taking responsibility, and independent/team working.

If you really spent 3 year doing a degree, got a 2:1, and genuinely learned no skills that have been useful to you in employment, that’s on you… or you just can’t see what skills you learned nor how you use them.

I have now read the OP LinkedIn page and it seems even more batshit.
There is no way universities can know about "realistic prospects of employment" . I had one student in 20 years go on to do graduate medical studies. This is a possible route from a non medical science degree but it isn't a common one. I am sure some of my students have gone into arts/theatre/music which they are qualified to do (as in, you don't need a degree in that subject and university experience will help) but the prospects of employment are low.
How can we possibly know the job market when one specific student leaves university in 5 years' time?