Petition for welby to resign

[Chan9eusername]

Is here.

https://www.change.org/p/a-call-for-justin-welby-to-resign

The media are being quite quiet about this petition (someone's palm has probably been greased).

I never said you were a Christian. You are literally defending a man that did not speak up when he could about a paedophile. The same paedophile that went onto abuse many more boys. No you aren't a Christian.

My point about the composition of the House of Lords is that bishops at least have obtained their positions on merit. Hereditary peers have not. There is a separate argument about whether bishops should sit in the Lords.

Justin Welby has introduced many positive changes into the Church of England - not least the arrival of women bishops. In many areas this has been transformative as many women in senior leadership roles have brought new experience and a fresh approach to issues in the Church. There has also been much work in bringing together different factions within the Church and positive moves to wards inclusivity.

Unfortunately, Archbishop Justin will be judged by many for his handling of this one issue. On his own admission, he did not pursue it as rigorously as he should have done. But we mustn't forget that he has also achieved a great deal.

Your trusting the BBC 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Read the actual report the police were not informed until 2017

You said "You are one of the many reasons that I don't believe in the church." I took that as an implication that you thought that I was a member of the Church of England. I'm not - I belong to a different religion.

I have stated several times that Justin Welby believed that, once the matter was reported to the police in 2013, it would be dealt with in an appropriate manner. He admits that this was not pursued as rigorously as it should have been. It is not the same as defending abuse or people who deliberately cover it up. Welby thought that he had done what was needed - clearly that wasn't enough.

He's leaving but it takes six months to replace him how the c of e famously has money and properties there must be vicars obviously suitable like the bishop of Newcastle Is he going to stay in the palace Lambeth is it and get paid Sell the arc hi bishops palace. to give some compensation to victims why does an arch bishop not just have a normal home Very glad he's going his political bias was annoying enough anyway Just. a rant

Thank goodness the evil bastard has finally been shamed into resigning.

I have stated several times that Justin Welby believed that, once the matter was reported to the police in 2013

Why do you keep insisting on this when the Makin Review says different?

Not just hundreds of boys, but also going on since he knew in 2013.

I don't think that the Bishop of Newcastle is going to be in the frame for Archbishop somehow. It will be interesting to see who does get the job. It will be a massive statement of how the Church is planning on moving forward.

He'a gone. Good riddance. Always seemed to me like a privileged, sanctimonious, pompous person who felt most comfortable on his high moral ground looking down at the rest of us. Turns out he was a crap leader. No surprises there. Shame about the hundreds victimised by people he failed to look at closer.

So it took Charles to tell him to do one. Apparently over the last few days he’s been thinking over whether resigning is the best /right thing to do. For a supposedly religious and moral person he had to think it over? He mixed with him after 2013, he knew he was an abuser and after it was reported to the police just assumed he’d stop? Where is his sense of shame, horror at a decade more of this man wrecking lives and no curiosity to see whether the police were progressing with their investigation? He’s contemptible

It looks as though it was discussed quite a bit with police, but a formal report reference number was not issued by the police. So the advice given by the police remained informal. There seem to have been a number of misunderstandings around that.

" I liked that he didn't come from a traditional background" Eton is pretty traditional, though?

Yes, precisely.

Welby was told about it in 2013, and also told that police were being informed. He took this on trust. Police had been informed, but apparently through the wrong channels. A church safeguarding officer raised it with her police liaison contact, who did nothing. A year later in 2014 it was raised separately with Oxfordshire police, and church officials had a meeting with two detectives about it. Oxfordshire police subsequently decided not to investigate.

Makin’s criticism of Welby is that:

1)He should have ensured that the crime was formally reported to police, with a crime reference number obtained, rather than informally reported to the church’s police liaison contacts, and he should have verified that this had been done rather than taking it on trust from his staff

2. When police subsequently failed to investigate, the church and Welby should have chased them and challenged their inaction.

There is no suggestion in the Makin report that Welby or anyone else tried to cover it up in 2013. Some posters on this thread have misunderstood that.

I should add, the Makin report does find that there was a cover-up in the Church, in the 1980s. This is the most serious and damning finding, because there was an internal report into Smythe (the Rustin report) which found him to be abusing boys, and this report was then suppressed and Smythe encouraged to leave the country. This part of Makin is absolutely shocking.

A number of the individuals implicated in this cover up are still alive, including one priest currently facing charges of sexual assault. Welby is not one of these individuals, and at the time he held no leadership role in the church - he was not even a priest at the time.

The report notes that Welby as a young man moved in the same circles as Smythe, and Smythe’s victims. Welby met Smythe on several occasions, exchanged a few Christmas cards with him, and donated some money to one of his charities in Africa. The young Welby was also warned by a friend that Smythe was a “bad man.” Makin suggests that this means Welby should have known that Smythe was suspicious, and had probably heard rumours about his behaviour. Welby denies he heard these rumours.

I read the report with some interest. I know of the churches in Oxford - the big evangelical student churches - that a lot of University students attend (all this . The vicars from St Aldate's and St Ebbe's seem to be very involved with trying to handle the case, the report reproduces their letters.

I was around a bit later, but I remember the vibe of some of these evangelical Christians, very conservative, quite a bit of feeling that the male had some kind of a God given dominance, the whole "muscular Christianity" thing. Lots of sporty blokes doing science. Very literal approaches to the Bible. (I'm a former Catholic interested in spirituality, so it was very different to where I was coming from).

I wonder whether there was concern that, while the goings on at Iwerne had to be wound up as quickly as possible, the other clergy didn't want a lot of publicity about it - because it would be so damaging to what they would have seen as God's work. They say in the correspondence that the parents and children did not want publicity.

I have known myself in another context that an abused teenager might say that going through a legal process etc is the last thing that they want, right then. Some of the teenagers might have said that. But there isn't much evidence that the opinions of the young people were comprehensively sought at the time, and at least some of the people who were abused are now articulating their fury that all this was suppressed.

Completely awful that the abuser was free to carry on in Africa. Appalling that a boy died (and Smyth got away with murder).

And terrible that all those young people have had to deal with this abuse for all those years of their lives.

I think in the context of the public outrage and damage to the church, that Welby did the right thing in resigning. But I get the impression that his involvement was pretty tangential and limited.

Welby was someone appointed with a managerial background, who didn't get the managing and deputising right. So yes, he should go, and yes, there should be compensation and support for victims.

But I think it was Smyth who was the "evil bastard". Welby, not so much. Maybe if we get a female Archbishop this time, they might have more insight into a more modern approach to handling abuse cases?

I hope a more modern approach is taken regardless of who is the next Archbishop.

When we had the first women Prime Minister, men were not willing to discuss such matters with her, which helped to cover up Jimmy Savile's crimes. I don't think such reticence would be there nowadays.

It was odd if Welby knew so much
that he showed no concern for the victims and odd he didn't check with the police what happened and if they had been given help Odd too that the church doesn't feel any responsibility for the victims Had a look at the palace the arch deacon lives in didn't get the sense he could identify with vulnerable people He has so many staff and cleaners
couldn't they do things for themselves Hope the next arch deacon is more normal and not super rich it would be good to see someone in his job who doesn't have the cold superiority the last two arch bishops have had I presume the ones before were similar put a real person in the job

If there is evidence of a cover up why isn’t there an investigation into being an accessory after the fact or preventing the course of justice?

Resignation is not enough.

This was back in the early eighties. These were middle-aged clergymen (very well respected) trying to manage a difficult situation as delicately as possible. They didn't do the right thing, but they put quite a bit of effort into trying to do the right thing as they understood it. I'm sure they prayed about it.

There are several letters printed in the report - the people who wrote them seem mostly to have died.

The more junior people involved probably will face further investigation, for example, into why the police report didn't end up with a reference number, on file, in 2013.

Rowan Williams was great, a very approachable poet, with a mad beard. Not elitist in his mind set (but a real intellectual, which is different). He definitely was not hanging out with conservative evangelicals at summer camp!

Just be good to see an arch bishop who is down to. earth and not just praying about things He should pay for all the support the victims will likely always need and think how lucky he is he wasn't a victim

Well, they aren't social workers. There needs to be a bit of praying in there, alongside the social justice etc.

Justin Welby was told in 2013 that the police had been informed and were dealing with the case. It now appears that no formal report was made to the police - they were just told about it. Someone obviously messed up there but Welby believed that it was being dealt with. By his own admission, he could have been more rigorous about keeping tabs on the case. But you have to ask if something has been reported to the police, should you then be expected to chase it up or should the police be expected to do their job properly?

But you have to ask if something has been reported to the police, should you then be expected to chase it up

Yes Yes Yes.

When it involves abuse of young boys, YES.