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Petitions and activism
StopTheBusINeedAWeeWeeAWeeWeeBagOChips · 03/03/2024 10:50

Mothercareyschickenhut · 03/03/2024 07:29

A site used primarily by woman is generally not supportive of taking rights away from woman.

But quite happy to take rights away from unborn children who may grow up to be women?

RightToLife UK don't want any abortion at all.

In an ideal world I'm sure no-one would want abortions. However, we don't live in an ideal world and have to try to make the fairest laws to try and balance the situation.

They're also fans of harrasing woman outside hospitals and clinics.

No-one should be subject to harassment of any kind.

Interestingly some prochoice posters on this thread thought it was OK to harass me/name call because I had a different point of view.
*One rule for one" eh ?

I am quite happy to have the actual life of a woman placed above the potential of life of a fetus, yes.

The law is already fair.

You have come on here to try and restrict our rights further, that directly effects us, so we can have opinions on that. A woman that these protesters don't know going to get a medical procedure doesn't effect anyone but her is totally different, they deliberately stand there to find people to harrass.

You think a 15yo should have to have parental consent for an abortion, and if they don't have that consent they should have to give birth? Is that really the stance you take here? Can you not think of one single reason why an under 16 would want an abortion without her parents knowing? Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

As long as a child is gillick competent they can consent to their own medical treatments without parental consent anyway, this has been the case for decades.

Mothercareyschickenhut · 04/03/2024 06:19

@StopTheBusINeedAWeeWeeAWeeWeeBagOChips "You have come on here to try and restrict our rights further, that directly effects us, so we can have opinions on that"

That is arrant nonsense, but you can believe it if you want, if it fits your narrative.

If the Amendment is passed, and "your rights are restricted" as you claim (and I'm not sure what the "our" is about, do you speak for all women?) it will because MPs have debated it and voted on it.

It's called "democracy". Get over it.

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StopTheBusINeedAWeeWeeAWeeWeeBagOChips · 04/03/2024 07:25

Yes, you're literally trying to restrict the rights of all of the women in the UK.

Clearly some may want their rights restricted, but they won't be the people who will require late term abortions anyway.

I'm not even sure why you're speaking in this subject when you clearly haven't even thought it through properly.

"One woman might be having an abortion in a hospital while another is giving birth" honestly, what kind of an argument is that for for anything.

qunari · 04/03/2024 09:05

Mothercareyschickenhut · 03/03/2024 07:44

An abortion is a medical procedure and under 16's need parental consent for medical procedures.
This is nothing new.

So they're not old enough to decide they want an abortion, but are old enough to give birth?

What do you mean by "old enough to give birth"?
There is no law that says how old a female has to be to give birth !

If a teenager is unable to get an abortion because her parent won't let her then she has to give birth. Whether she wants to or not. It's sick.

Mothercareyschickenhut · 04/03/2024 12:05

@qunari "It's sick"

Not half as sick at what's going on at some abortion clinics.

You talk about 'harassment' - well read this:

A report from the UK’s Care Quality Commission (CQC) accused Marie Stopes International (now MSI Reproductive Choices) of paying staff bonuses for persuading women to have abortions.
**
At all 70 Marie Stopes clinics, inspectors from the Care Quality Commission found evidence of a policy that saw staff utilise a high-pressure sales tactic, calling women who had decided against having an abortion to offer them another appointment.

Another report showed that nearly 400 botched abortions were carried out in two months at Marie Stopes clinics. The report also outlined that, in another three-month period, 11 women needed emergency transfers to hospital after difficulties at facilities run by the abortion provider.

In 2016, Marie Stopes International was forced to suspend abortion services for a month after an unannounced inspection by the CQC found 2,600 safety flaws at Marie Stopes International abortion clinics in the UK. These included doctors going home and leaving women under sedation to be supervised by nurses and healthcare assistants, foetuses being put in waste bins rather than cremated and staff trying to give a vulnerable, visibly distressed woman an abortion without her consent.

The inspectors also found that almost half of nurses working at the clinics had not been trained to do resuscitation, and that safety incidents including medical blunders and equipment failures had increased by a third in a year, and doctors were signing off up to 60 consent forms at a time when they were meant to be making a thorough assessment. One doctor filled in up to 26 consent forms in two minutes.

OP posts:
qunari · 04/03/2024 15:00

Try to justify your misogyny in whatever way you want.

Mothercareyschickenhut · 04/03/2024 15:24

qunari · 04/03/2024 15:00

Try to justify your misogyny in whatever way you want.

I'm sorry you can't accept facts.

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SnapdragonToadflax · 05/03/2024 09:28

If any of that is true (and I don't have the time to do proper research into it), it only proves that abortion should be part of healthcare, done in hospital by fully qualified staff.

Forcing a woman to have a baby she does not want is barbaric.

StopTheBusINeedAWeeWeeAWeeWeeBagOChips · 05/03/2024 10:12

Mothercareyschickenhut · 04/03/2024 12:05

@qunari "It's sick"

Not half as sick at what's going on at some abortion clinics.

You talk about 'harassment' - well read this:

A report from the UK’s Care Quality Commission (CQC) accused Marie Stopes International (now MSI Reproductive Choices) of paying staff bonuses for persuading women to have abortions.
**
At all 70 Marie Stopes clinics, inspectors from the Care Quality Commission found evidence of a policy that saw staff utilise a high-pressure sales tactic, calling women who had decided against having an abortion to offer them another appointment.

Another report showed that nearly 400 botched abortions were carried out in two months at Marie Stopes clinics. The report also outlined that, in another three-month period, 11 women needed emergency transfers to hospital after difficulties at facilities run by the abortion provider.

In 2016, Marie Stopes International was forced to suspend abortion services for a month after an unannounced inspection by the CQC found 2,600 safety flaws at Marie Stopes International abortion clinics in the UK. These included doctors going home and leaving women under sedation to be supervised by nurses and healthcare assistants, foetuses being put in waste bins rather than cremated and staff trying to give a vulnerable, visibly distressed woman an abortion without her consent.

The inspectors also found that almost half of nurses working at the clinics had not been trained to do resuscitation, and that safety incidents including medical blunders and equipment failures had increased by a third in a year, and doctors were signing off up to 60 consent forms at a time when they were meant to be making a thorough assessment. One doctor filled in up to 26 consent forms in two minutes.

So rather than campaign to have better qualified staff, safer facilities, better funding etc you choose to spend your time campaigning to further restrict women's rights?

Because you don't give a shit about women and want the warm and fuzzies thinking you're 'saving babies', when you're not at all, you're just taking choices away from already desperate women.

You don't want to have a perfectly legal medical procedure, fine, don't have one, but when you try and make your ridiculous opinion about your own body into a law that could effect my daughters you'll have a damned fight on your hands.

pointythings · 05/03/2024 12:15

Fuck no.

Your precious organisation can fuck right off.

Abortion should be taken out of criminal justice and enshrined as a right, as France has just done. The rights and choices of women who are already here must always come first.

qunari · 05/03/2024 12:49

SNAAAKE · 01/03/2024 12:08

Which MPs already support this? Also is it England or England and Wales only?

Edited

I'd like to know this. Is there a list of MPs who already support this?

Mothercareyschickenhut · 06/03/2024 08:21

pointythings · 05/03/2024 12:15

Fuck no.

Your precious organisation can fuck right off.

Abortion should be taken out of criminal justice and enshrined as a right, as France has just done. The rights and choices of women who are already here must always come first.

Abortion should be taken out of criminal justice and enshrined as a right, as France has just done.

So are you campaigning for this?

If so, what are you actually doing to make this a reality?

OP posts:
Mothercareyschickenhut · 06/03/2024 08:23

@StopTheBusINeedAWeeWeeAWeeWeeBagOChips

So are you campaigning to have better qualified staff, safer facilities, better funding etc ?

OP posts:
pointythings · 06/03/2024 08:29

@Mothercareyschickenhut of course I am. I am not a British citizen, though I live here, but I do what I can. And if there is ever a suggestion of limiting abortion rights in the UK, I will be on the streets getting arrested if that's what it takes. Banning abortion kills women. The organisation you are supporting wants a ban. That makes them complicit in the deaths of women.

StopTheBusINeedAWeeWeeAWeeWeeBagOChips · 06/03/2024 08:29

Mothercareyschickenhut · 06/03/2024 08:23

@StopTheBusINeedAWeeWeeAWeeWeeBagOChips

So are you campaigning to have better qualified staff, safer facilities, better funding etc ?

Yes, plus I make a monthly donation thanks for asking.

Nice way to deflect the fact that you're doing fuck all about this supposedly dangerous situation apart from try and make things even more restricted for women though.

Honestly, you people are so damned predictable and basic, it's embarrassing.

Mothercareyschickenhut · 06/03/2024 08:33

@StopTheBusINeedAWeeWeeAWeeWeeBagOChips

You seem to be getting rather aggressive about this? I wonder why that is?

I was asking a question and I'll ask it again - So how are you campaigning and what effect is it having?

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pointythings · 06/03/2024 08:38

@Mothercareyschickenhut why do you need to know how we campaign? It's likely to be very similar to what you're doing: sharing petitions, writing to MPs (I have written to mine asking him to support Diana Johnson's amendment), donating to organisations supporting reproductive choice, raising awareness. It's not rocket science.

Mumsnet is pretty pro choice.

Mothercareyschickenhut · 06/03/2024 08:43

pointythings · 06/03/2024 08:29

@Mothercareyschickenhut of course I am. I am not a British citizen, though I live here, but I do what I can. And if there is ever a suggestion of limiting abortion rights in the UK, I will be on the streets getting arrested if that's what it takes. Banning abortion kills women. The organisation you are supporting wants a ban. That makes them complicit in the deaths of women.

@pointythings Banning abortion kills women.

I never said anything about banning abortion, the bill is to move the time limit to better reflect the medical advances we now have.

The organisation you are supporting wants a ban.

Where do they promote that?

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Mothercareyschickenhut · 06/03/2024 08:57

pointythings · 06/03/2024 08:38

@Mothercareyschickenhut why do you need to know how we campaign? It's likely to be very similar to what you're doing: sharing petitions, writing to MPs (I have written to mine asking him to support Diana Johnson's amendment), donating to organisations supporting reproductive choice, raising awareness. It's not rocket science.

Mumsnet is pretty pro choice.

I was just curious.

Am I not allowed to ask a question?

Is this the sort of thing you would support (below) ? Because if so, it doesn't do your group any favours.

Seems like Pro-choicers are a rather aggressive bunch ?

They complain about women being 'harassed' outside abortion clinics then do the very same thing to other women - very strange?

4 March 2024

A group of pro-life students at the University of Manchester were left “terrified” as an out-of-control mob barricaded, spat on, threatened, and wished rape on them for their pro-life views.
Last Thursday evening, Manchester Pro-Life Society held a talk at the university only to be met by an organised pro-choice protest of up to 250 people. The pro-choice mob were so aggressive that a heavily pregnant pro-life 22-year-old woman had to be escorted home in a police van due to concerns for her safety.
The pro-life students who attempted to attend the talk were subjected to a barrage of verbal abuse and threats, with one student being spat on directly in the face.
While the students eventually managed to gain entry to the location of the talk after having to make their way through the mob and be permitted entry by an understaffed security detail, the pro-life students had eggs thrown at the windows, and had their event disrupted by members of the mob who managed to break into the venue through a fire escape and displayed a banner reading “Destroy Pro-Life Soc”.
Jacob, the Treasurer of Manchester Pro-Life Society, said that “if it wasn’t for the police and security, people would have definitely been physically hurt”.
“It made me feel intimidated and threatened. I was genuinely afraid that we would get hurt physically”.
“The crowd was extremely violent – spitting, throwing eggs, screaming and swearing”
The pregnant 22-year-old alumna of the university, Maisie, who had to be escorted home by the police said she thought she was in “real danger”.
“I felt especially vulnerable, being 7 months pregnant I was terrified they would hurt me and my baby girl”.
“Leaving the building was the most terrifying part, we were surrounded and people were screaming in our faces. I knew that it would only take one person to push into me for me to fall and be crushed. It was traumatic, I was shaking the whole time and I’m still really shaken up. I really thought our lives were in danger. The crowd was extremely violent – spitting, throwing eggs, screaming and swearing. There were around 30 of us, and 300 of them. Most of them had their faces covered”.
Another pro-life student, Rafa, who managed to attend the event, said that some pro-life students couldn’t gain entry into the event and were informed by police that they “can’t let any more people in. This is just too dangerous'”.
He described the situation of leaving the event and having to face the mob: “When we were leaving, the police told everyone we had to do this very quickly, very swift exit from the building”.
“I got spat in the face by a girl who was next to me as I was leaving. I really couldn’t see her face”.
“The police were using force to stop these people because they were being very violent. They were being very threatening, both physically and verbally”.
Inge, a first-year pro-life student at the university, added “Some students even said they hoped I would be raped”.
“It’s unthinkable that at a university – where we are meant to discuss and debate important ideas about life and society – my peers and I have been threatened, spat on, barricaded and wished death upon simply for our peaceful beliefs”.
The group protesting the pro-life event, Stop Manchester Pro-Life, also released a list of demands around the same time as the event including the demand that pro-life medical students “not be placed in abortion clinics, maternity wards and sexual health clinics due to conflict of interest”.

OP posts:
qunari · 06/03/2024 09:06

Mothercareyschickenhut · 06/03/2024 08:57

I was just curious.

Am I not allowed to ask a question?

Is this the sort of thing you would support (below) ? Because if so, it doesn't do your group any favours.

Seems like Pro-choicers are a rather aggressive bunch ?

They complain about women being 'harassed' outside abortion clinics then do the very same thing to other women - very strange?

4 March 2024

A group of pro-life students at the University of Manchester were left “terrified” as an out-of-control mob barricaded, spat on, threatened, and wished rape on them for their pro-life views.
Last Thursday evening, Manchester Pro-Life Society held a talk at the university only to be met by an organised pro-choice protest of up to 250 people. The pro-choice mob were so aggressive that a heavily pregnant pro-life 22-year-old woman had to be escorted home in a police van due to concerns for her safety.
The pro-life students who attempted to attend the talk were subjected to a barrage of verbal abuse and threats, with one student being spat on directly in the face.
While the students eventually managed to gain entry to the location of the talk after having to make their way through the mob and be permitted entry by an understaffed security detail, the pro-life students had eggs thrown at the windows, and had their event disrupted by members of the mob who managed to break into the venue through a fire escape and displayed a banner reading “Destroy Pro-Life Soc”.
Jacob, the Treasurer of Manchester Pro-Life Society, said that “if it wasn’t for the police and security, people would have definitely been physically hurt”.
“It made me feel intimidated and threatened. I was genuinely afraid that we would get hurt physically”.
“The crowd was extremely violent – spitting, throwing eggs, screaming and swearing”
The pregnant 22-year-old alumna of the university, Maisie, who had to be escorted home by the police said she thought she was in “real danger”.
“I felt especially vulnerable, being 7 months pregnant I was terrified they would hurt me and my baby girl”.
“Leaving the building was the most terrifying part, we were surrounded and people were screaming in our faces. I knew that it would only take one person to push into me for me to fall and be crushed. It was traumatic, I was shaking the whole time and I’m still really shaken up. I really thought our lives were in danger. The crowd was extremely violent – spitting, throwing eggs, screaming and swearing. There were around 30 of us, and 300 of them. Most of them had their faces covered”.
Another pro-life student, Rafa, who managed to attend the event, said that some pro-life students couldn’t gain entry into the event and were informed by police that they “can’t let any more people in. This is just too dangerous'”.
He described the situation of leaving the event and having to face the mob: “When we were leaving, the police told everyone we had to do this very quickly, very swift exit from the building”.
“I got spat in the face by a girl who was next to me as I was leaving. I really couldn’t see her face”.
“The police were using force to stop these people because they were being very violent. They were being very threatening, both physically and verbally”.
Inge, a first-year pro-life student at the university, added “Some students even said they hoped I would be raped”.
“It’s unthinkable that at a university – where we are meant to discuss and debate important ideas about life and society – my peers and I have been threatened, spat on, barricaded and wished death upon simply for our peaceful beliefs”.
The group protesting the pro-life event, Stop Manchester Pro-Life, also released a list of demands around the same time as the event including the demand that pro-life medical students “not be placed in abortion clinics, maternity wards and sexual health clinics due to conflict of interest”.

If your going to copy and paste from some anti-choice website, at least have the decency to cite your source.

pointythings · 06/03/2024 09:10

Do you support forced birth advocates shouting at women outside clinics and shoving images of aborted foetuses in their faces? I will answer your if you will answer mine.

Mothercareyschickenhut · 06/03/2024 09:28

pointythings · 06/03/2024 09:10

Do you support forced birth advocates shouting at women outside clinics and shoving images of aborted foetuses in their faces? I will answer your if you will answer mine.

Oh dear, what a shame we can't have a productive debate without so much aggression.

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Mothercareyschickenhut · 06/03/2024 09:40

qunari · 06/03/2024 09:06

If your going to copy and paste from some anti-choice website, at least have the decency to cite your source.

All you have to do is ask nicely - nothing 'indecent' about it. 🙂

It was also reported in mainstream media

https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/01/fights-break-protest-new-student-anti-abortion-society-20378141/

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2024-03-02/violence-during-protest-over-pro-life-society-at-manchester-university

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13143617/Moment-violence-explodes-outside-University-Manchester-student-union-pro-choice-pro-life-protesters-clash.html

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-university-incident-videos-emerge-28733961

Videos emerge of men fighting during huge protest over pro-life society

Hundreds of protesters took to Oxford Road

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-university-incident-videos-emerge-28733961

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pointythings · 06/03/2024 09:59

On abortion there's nothing to be debated. On what happened in Manchester - yes, that was deplorable. But no more so than the behaviour of forced birth advocates outside clinics. On the whole, the forced birthers have behaved worse over time, especially in the US.

Do you accept that banning abortion kills women?

Mothercareyschickenhut · 06/03/2024 10:01

@pointythings On abortion there's nothing to be debated

So no point in me engaging further with you is there?

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