Noah Donohoe: the latest news is very bad

[MNettersForNoahAndFiona]

Many Mumsnetters will have already seen and kindly supported my threads and those of others about the disappearance and death of young Noah Donohoe in Belfast in June 2020. For those who haven't, Noah's naked body was retrieved from a drain after he had been missing for 6 days. Two years later, his grieving mother Fiona, with her sister Niamh at her side, is still having to fight for the truth about her adored son's disappearance and death and for justice for him.

Yesterday, Fiona was given official notice by the government/NIO that a Public Interest Immunity Certificate has been granted. It was signed by the new Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Shailesh Vara, MP for North West Cambridgeshire. This means that the police/PSNI are allowed to keep hundreds of pages of information from their botched investigation into the disappearance and death of this innocent and precious child secret. It was received by the police/PSNI and Crown Solicitors Office on the 19th July and his mother was not told for over a week.

Mr Vara was appointed after Brandon Lewis resigned from Boris Johnson's cabinet. He has only been in his post as NI Secretary for two weeks. This is not a good start. Signing the PII Certificate so swiftly indicates to me that he has not taken due time and care to learn all the facts in Noah's case. I think anyone who concludes from this that Mr Vara is just a government and police puppet could be forgiven.

For those Mumsnetters not in Northern Ireland who believe that PII Certificates don't concern you, a PII Certificate application from the police/PSNI protected Robert Howard, a known prolific and violent child killer and rapist. It allowed him to travel to England, Scotland and Ireland. He was only brought to justice when he raped and killed a child in Kent. This is only one example of many.

If you are not outraged, then you have not been paying attention. What can you do? Please think about this and do what you can. Please join us in raising awareness about Noah on social media, with your own government representatives and mainstream media. If you want to contact Shailesh Vara directly about Noah's case:
members.parliament.uk/member/1496/contact
Email at NIO: [email protected]
He is also on Twitter:
twitter.com/ShaileshVara

Here is a factual and reliable pinned Twitter thread for people new to Noah's story or wanting to know more:
mobile.twitter.com/MarymoBelfast/status/1370453351616425985
Here is Fiona's podcast:

Here is a Channel 4 News report: www.channel4.com/news/noah-donohoe-family-seek-answers-over-belfast-teenagers-death And please, if you haven't already, do still join the 309,146 people who have showed they care by signing Fiona's petition. Link in the OP of this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4573833-noah-donohoe-his-mothers-fight-for-the-truth-and-justice-please-help-stop-the-police-coroner-and-brandon-lewis-from-keeping-investigation-files-into-the-death-of-a-child-secret-thread-3?

Thank you sincerely for reading and for your support. 💙

TLDR:
As Marion Wright Edelman said, if we don't stand up for children, then we don't stand for much. Shame on you, Shailesh Vara. AIBU?

Op

can you answer my post of 9:45?

im just trying to decipher the situation

Hi Quitelikeit

You are right to ask questions because there are many questions. I will comment where and how I can.

What intelligence led the police to find Noah's body in the drain on that date 950m from where he was last seen alive six days before? And on the day they were due to begin belatedly searching houses? What intelligence enabled the police to get the warrants necessary to search houses on two different roads? How can the police say that nobody else - whoever they are - was involved in anything and everything that happened to Noah when the little CCTV footage they have disclosed does not show the points at which it is said by the police that all of his belongings and later all of his clothing was 'discarded by Noah' or entering the drain by himself? When the forensics, searches and interviews of potential witnesses by the police have been so poor? When information given has been discounted by the police so quickly and statements retracted? Was the dirt on Noah's body just from the drain? How did he get the head injury visible on his body when the witness who saw him have a minor fall from his bike said that he did not bump his head and he was wearing his helmet? Noah's cause of death has been given as 'drowning', but where did he drown, because water samples were not taken from the drain to compare with water in his lungs and his body did not look like it had been in a drain for 6 days? This is just a sample of points - have you watched Fiona's podcast and read the Twitter thread? I advise that you do - I can't really cover over two years here with very limited time.

The almost 600 pages from their 'investigation' that the police seek to hide must be made available to Noah's legal team. There must be a fresh investigation by an outside police service. There must be a public inquiry. Only then will all these questions be properly answered - unless, that is, some people get a crisis of conscience.

Petition update:
Very pleased to report that Fiona's petition against the PII Certificate now has 322,745 signatures of support and is still steadily climbing. Please continue to sign and share, and don't forget to confirm your signature via the email Change will send you for it to count. Link to the petition thread is in the OP. Thank you all very much.

Recent headlines attached.

Also, this campaign has now got Provisional Sinn Féin and Provisional IRA involved yet the OP has still not condemned SF/PIRA for their 15 year long cover up in the murder of Paul Quinn. See attachment.

Such behaviour does not reflect well on the OP. One does not claim to be against all forms of violence and still stand with SF/PIRA in a campaign for justice they deny another family to this very day.

To do so risks detracting from the campaign for Noah, loses the moral high ground and allows SF/PIRA to use this tragic case for their own selfish political reasons. OP has tried to keep SF/PIRA out of being named by themselves which means they know how problematic their involvement is.

I don’t live in Ireland so I don’t understand the situation there in regards to all of this terrorism etc

however, surely if the child was last seen 950m from where his body was found then it is common sense to search that area?

you said earlier some women in the street had come forward to say he was there?

are you saying his body was not decomposed enough to have been in a storm drain for 6 days? If so then you would need to know how often those drains fill up, how high and for how long?

im assuming there was blood samples and photographs taken?

was there head injury severe? How severe?

the woman who saw him fall - I’m assuming you know her identity? Have you talked to her?

one thing I do find strange is that he was riding around naked and the police were not informed? I’d be straight on the phone as surely many others would?

@DownNative not even just Paul Quinn.
What about the over 50 year wait that the families of Colin Nichols and Tracey Munn have had. Colin was 17 months old and Tracey was 2.

www.newsletter.co.uk/news/people/parents-of-toddler-killed-by-ira-bomb-braced-for-50th-anniversary-service-today-3491312?amp

But unless I’m missing something those parents know how they children were killed and the organisation that was responsible

this case has no clues with regards to anything, who, where, when

*I don’t live in Ireland so I don’t understand the situation there in regards to all of this terrorism etc

however, surely if the child was last seen 950m from where his body was found then it is common sense to search that area?*
The area was searched when Noah's bike and belongings were found in Northwood road. The police did not search any houses at that time. The police allowed the bin men to empty the bins in that street in front of Fiona shortly after Noah's belongings were found.
*
you said earlier some women in the street had come forward to say he was there? *
Two women have come forward. One to say she saw Noah in the street that day. The other reported that Noah's bike had been left against her front garden wall.

are you saying his body was not decomposed enough to have been in a storm drain for 6 days? If so then you would need to know how often those drains fill up, how high and for how long?

Noah's body showed no signs of having been damaged by water. Let alone contaminated water and sewage as in that storm drain. After 6 days in such an environment there would be significant damage. Noah's body was perfect. The storm drain is also tidal. There is no way his body would have remained in that drain for the six days as it would have been forced out with the tides.
In addition the drain was less than 1 metre in diameter, full of debris and pitch black. There is no way that someone could get 950m through that drain without so much as a scratch on them. Noah was naked, but his body showed no signs of being injured on its journey up the drain.
*
im assuming there was blood samples and photographs taken?
was there head injury severe? How severe? *
He had a bump on his forehead. But CCTV shown to Fiona of his fall from his bike does not show him banging his head. He got straight back on his bike and rode off.

the woman who saw him fall - I’m assuming you know her identity? Have you talked to her?
I believe it was CCTV that saw him fall.
*
one thing I do find strange is that he was riding around naked and the police were not informed? I’d be straight on the phone as surely many others would?*

The witnesses say they thought it was a Father's Day prank.

I don’t live in Ireland so I don’t understand the situation there in regards to all of this terrorism etc
You don't need to. Terrorism is not at all relevant to Noah's story. Two posters on this thread, like a minority in real life, want to keep us all firmly in the past. They are posting repetitively with their own agenda, it seems to me only to derail this thread for Noah and damage his mummy's campaign for the truth and for justice. They have made serious, damaging and completely false accusations against me and against Fiona of terrorist involvement in Noah's campaign. They should be ashamed of themselves. I have politely asked them to cease and desist. Noah was brought up to see all people as equal. He was gentle and kind. All violence is abhorrent. We cannot personally right all the terrible wrongs in this world, including in the past on both sides of the troubles. In peacefully seeking the truth and justice for Noah, and an end to the use of PII Certificates, we believe that all children will be safer in the future.

So you're denying that SF/PIRA organised a protest or protests and have organised buses and publicly supported the campaign? You know all those things I've just said can be evidenced don't you?

It's been well publicised in Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland newspapers that Provisional Sinn Féin has been involved in your campaign.

See attachment.

Provisional Sinn Féin and Provisional IRA are still the same thing today. Intelligence from PSNI, MI5 and the Republic of Ireland's Gardai all agree on this fact which still remains unchanged in 2022.

There is no agenda.

Fact is, you cannot campaign for justice and at the same time, stand with SF/PIRA in pursuit of justice for Noah Donohoe knowing full well SF/PIRA have been obstructing justice for the Quinn family whose son they murdered.

It's very simple what the campaign for Noah Donohoe on Mumsnet must do and offline as well.

Denounce SF/PIRA, stand in solidarity with families like the Quinns as well as others and ensure the Provos are not anywhere near the campaign for justice.

See attachment.

Once again, whoever is behind the MNettersForNoahandFiona account has failed to do the above. It doesn't reflect well on you....whoever you are.

@MNettersForNoahAndFiona "In peacefully seeking the truth and justice for Noah, and an end to the use of PII Certificates, we believe that all children will be safer in the future."

Then stand in solidarity with the Quinn family whose son was murdered by SF/PIRA in 2007. Every bone in his body was broken.

SF/PIRA has spent 15 years now denying the family justice whilst spreading lies about Paul Quinn. Quinn's murder was swept under the carpet to "protect" the peace process...the same allegation some in Noah's Army have claimed.

Yet no denouncement of SF/PIRA!

The people of Great Britain must be flabbergasted to know and see there's nothing forthcoming from you on this murder.

Murder is murder.

SF/PIRA is very obviously using Noah Donohoe's memory as a convenient political weapon and an opportunity to sanitise their past as well as their recent attempts to justify that past.

How can you speak of justice and truth whilst standing with SF/PIRA?

This is not genuinely possible.

Yes but this woman is trying to seek answers for a different child

why should she consider fighting a different battle at the moment

i Don’t know these organisations or condone what they have done in the past but maybe they have changed their approach?

im sure no one in these organisations is going to go to the police and tell them who committed past atrocities not least because their own life and that of their families would be at risk

infact I’d be surprised if everyone didn’t already know who it was but lack of evidence or no one willing to give evidence etc

No, many of them do not know such details. Many of them go back decades too. Lies have for many of them been told about their relatives.

Claudy is one where perpetrator refuses to admit or divulge any information as seen in the attachment.

The point stands - one cannot campaign for justice AND truth whilst standing with those who deny justice AND truth to many others.

Paul Quinn is just one example that haunts SF/PIRA to this day.

The aforementioned two posters also seem to be confusing, deliberately or otherwise, a present day political party - Sinn Féin - with an organisation belonging firmly in the past - PIRA/IRA. I have never been involved with either, or anything on any side apart from peace, but to be fair to Sinn Féin I have to point out that, as the BBC factually reports, they are currently NI's largest political party in terms of seats and votes in 2022. The campaign and investigation for Noah is led by his mummy Fiona, his auntie Niamh, their legal team and the decent, concerned, general public. However Fiona also needs cross party support - repeat, cross party - from all those representing and voted for by the people of NI in the present day.

SF/PIRA have not changed their approach since they continue to attempt to justify their murder campaign to this very day.

Paul Quinn was murdered in 2007 - 9 years after the GFA. Tells you what you need to know about any idea they've changed. It wasn't too long ago they spread absolute lies about Paul Quinn either which is why articles are still written.

The point is one cannot campaign for justice AND truth with an organisation like SF/PIRA who deliberately deny the same to another family. It undermines one's cause, so best they denounce them and keep them as far away as possible from the campaign for Noah Donohoe.

There are similarities between the case of Noah Donohoe and Paul Quinn.

It should be a no brainer that MNettersForNoahandFiona also stands in solidarity with families like the Quinns.

Especially since the account claims to denounce all forms of violence.

Also, MNettersForNoahandFiona is not very likely to be Fiona Donohoe herself. Its an anonymous individual.

Enough of lies like that.

Sinn Féin is NOT being confused with the IRA. They and the IRA are still the SAME thing in 2022 as in 1972!

The intelligence report from PSNI, MI5 and the Republic of Ireland's Gardai all confirm Sinn Féin is still controlled by the Provisional Army Council.

The Governments of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland both more than accept the findings of their respective police forces.

Furthermore, the intelligence aforementioned confirms that SF/PIRA still have access to weapons.

Sinn Féin in 2022 continues to justify their terrorism in an unrepentant fashion. They have never once severed ANY link with their armed wing, PIRA. That link is still there today.

There is no cross party support that I can see. Indeed, you did castigate the Northern Ireland Justice Minister and leader of the Alliance Party Noami Long.

Yet routinely refuse to denounce Provisional Sinn Féin and Provisional IRA, collectively known as the Provos.

Who said you, MumsNettersForNoahandFiona was involved with SF/PIRA?

Noone I can see.

But it is true that SF/PIRA has now gone front and centre in the campaign, including organising public protests.

It speaks volumes you've been very keen to avoid any mention of SF/PIRA throughout unless someone pointed it out.

And now we can see you've tried to falsely claim Sinn Féin and the IRA are not the same things in 2022. Despite the intelligence report from the UK and ROI Governments stating otherwise.

So much for the truth, eh?

As long as you refuse to denounce the Provos and refuse to boot them from the campaign in all its forms.....People will continue to tell others such an unrepentant terrorist organisation is involved.

Hypocrisy is not a good look.

@Quitelikeit "I don’t live in Ireland so I don’t understand the situation there in regards to all of this terrorism etc"

You don't need to live in Northern Ireland to understand this simple point:

One cannot campaign for justice AND truth whilst standing with SF/PIRA who actively deny justice to others.

It's very simple - would you stand with those who go against your own values in such a major, fundamental way towards their own victims?

No, you wouldn't just as you wouldn't want an arsonist anywhere near the rebuilding of your house whilst they justify their previous arson towards your neighbours.

As for the rest of your comment, there's a public inquest in November so wait for that. Speculating online isn't helpful. The Coroner sees ALL the files of evidence relating to the case.

I am not in the least confused. How dare you.

Ok I shall step away now but I do admit I have been and listened to the YouTube interview.

it is very chilling. I do get the impression that something very underhand is at play.

whether that is the police being downright lazy and/or racist, witnesses saying a naked child was a Father’s Day prank, no mother on this earth would think that unless this area was very very rough and adverse to calling the police. The people who robbed him, police not arresting them so many questions of course it looks suspicious

i hope you find out the truth but by god I’m not sure you will.

I do hope the coroner can shed some light on something and I do hope his mother is safe in light of everything.

re: accepting support from other groups who have committed atrocities well the woman is desperate and grieving. She is fighting for justice. She’s fighting her own battle and for her son I doubt she can take on other battles right now.

im sure that question might be put to her in the future but right now I get where she is coming from.

💙

I wasn't aware of this campaign but have read everything and signed, and will write to my MP.

Found this in active , so it's still visible

I'm still intrigued by Noah's fixation with Jordan Peterson. It's an odd one for somebody of his age. Was he discovering the manosphere/falling in with a bad crowd? Apparently he had been attempting to contact people online shortly before his death.

Bump

I'm still intrigued by Noah's fixation with Jordan Peterson.
Noah was not fixated with Jordan Peterson. Noah was bright, with an enquiring mind. He had a copy of the book, 12 Rules for Life just like lots of people - it is a best selling book worldwide.
Was he discovering the manosphere/falling in with a bad crowd?
No.
Apparently he had been attempting to contact people online shortly before his death.
It is important not to believe or read too much into everything you hear from the police, online and in certain newspapers.

It is also important to avoid any victim-blaming. We have already seen this towards his mother including with a minority on this thread, and Noah was an innocent child, beautiful inside and out.