Women can't consent to death - Natalie Connolly is not alone

[WomanDaresTo]

Natalie Connolly's case is not unique.

Over on feminism chat we've found many of UK cases of men claiming that women they have killed consented to it as part of rough/kinky sex game gone wrong.

You can see them here: www.wecantconsenttothis.uk/

Often, that defence works - especially recently when the women or girls are young, and often when man who kills them has just met them.

WIBU I ask you to sign the petitions, write to the Attorney General on Natalie Connolly's killer's sentence, and also let us know on this thread if you know of more cases like this.

Searching your local newspapers would be so helpful - especially those newspapers which might not be particularly online yet. These cases often attract little wider attention.

and WWBU to ask @MNHQ to think about a campaign on this?

[oh and merry Christmas, and to all the women and those who loved them]

Would it not get much more attention where it was?

Yes it would

Well have to keep bumping it.

Agree. Let's try and keep this in active convos.

But I'm going to say again that I'm disappointed that @MNHQ has moved this thread to a distant corner.

I feel sick reading these. I knew other women had been murdered in 'sex games gone wrong', but I had no idea of some of these appallingly low sentences. So sad and so sorry for these poor women and so angry at how little worth women have in the justice system.

I will be writing to the attorney general. I hope this can become a mumsnet campaign. What a time to be a woman and especially have young daughters 😢

I mistakenly thought the max sentence was 10 years but on further reading a judge can give a life sentence but 2-10 years is more usual for manslaughter (that fact is shocking in itself!)

I think it's a shame to move it, I've seen other threads discussing petitions/campaigns that aren't moved.

Bump

Will write to AG, this is appalling

Bump

Signed

This wasn't a sex game tho, that could happen, but this was murderous rage.

Manslaughter, how? Obvs a vicious attack. Should be 10 years tho even if he got away with it, if that the max
Can imagine manslaughter in other circumstances, gave someone a shove, they fell and cracked their head, but not this
Life sentence carries need to be supervised for life even if released early. This animal will get out no strings attached. Is there an appeal?

I can't bring myself to read the details of this case, how her family must feel doesn't bear thinking about.
I'd support a campaign to reject the 'rough sex' defence. No one should be allowed to use this as any kind of defence or justification. Quite the opposite, if you let your partner die, even during consensual sex, you should be legally responsible. And punished accordingly.

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Bump.

Let's spare a thought for the family of Natalie Connolly and other families who have lost a loved one in similar circumstances.

Bump. It's too late to save Natalie, but the least we can do is try to force the courts to reassess the case and give her family the gift of justice.

Bump

Thank you so much Coldhandscoldheart - India added now.

Merry Christmas all, and thank you for bumping.

Still to add more women. There are even more who have been seriously assaulted and survive - and even though they say they didn't consent to having their shoulders dislocated, or being locked in a room and indecently assaulted - the man is found not guilty or previous consent is used as mitigating in sentencing.

Should we start a new thread that does not include the dread word petition?

Bump

Bump.

This lack of action on this issue is confusing to me. I'd understood (from A level law a long time ago) that a stated case of Brown meant that you couldn't consent to assault?

But from memory that case involved men. That might be the difference.

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@WomanDaresTo a new thread that doesn't directly mention petition could be good.

I'm going to keep bumping this out of sheer bloody mindedness; that blithe message from MNHQ really pissed me off.

Bump

I'm going to be fair to LilyMumsnet - I'm assuming she didn't read the list of women and just moved the thread as the harridans had posted petition in AIBU again. It is Christmas after all.

But yes please keep bumping.

Campaign wise, I've been thinking we need to change:

• The law - e.g. on grevious bodily harm as part of sexual activity
• sentencing guidelines - allow more years for manslaughter
• training - assume barristers/judges/magistrates get trained on this.
• men's attitudes: we need moral horror around assaulting women "during sex"

- women's attitudes. This seems to be a male fantasy, or a male fake defence. Women don't die from doing this to themselves (plenty men do). Women should feel able to report assault as part of sexual activity. Women should not feel that submitting to violence in sex is something they have to do. - police attitudes? Maybe on women reporting (non-consensual) assault as part of consensual activity.

As an aside - the last parts would have been helpful to me when younger. When I've been looking for these cases I'm astonished that, actually, I've been assaulted. And a number of times, actually quite badly, and it never entered my head to report it. Because I'd consented to the sex - and so (in my head) obviously the whole thing.