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Original poster

Council to ban kids over 8 from using opposite sex toilets!!! Sign this petition!!!

186 replies

Weemee · 25/01/2014 10:11

Hi,

Glasgow City Council are proposing to change the parks management rules...I think in reaction to the problems had in the past with social media organised events. However, they are proposing (amongst other things):
-Children over the age of 8 may not use opposite sex toilets;
-that nurseries/ schools may not take children to the park without written permission from the director at the parks dept. and only once a charge has been paid;
-No congregation of more than 20 people without permission;
-No playing group sports (an intended legacy of a commonwealth games city?!?)
-No music;

There's a petition doing the rounds and an email to tell the council what we think. Seems to me a pretty heavy handed reaction to an incident from 3 years ago.....and one which will negatively impact upon everyone. Many inner city nurseries use the parks as many have little/ no outside space. It's not exactly promoting a health lifestyle either! Not the best legacy for a commonwealth games city!

If you agree this proposal is not what's needed there's an email address to the council directly and a petition here
Thanks for reading!

OP posts:
OutragedFromLeeds · 25/01/2014 19:19

'Men don't always like females in there with the urinals though...'

and women don't always like males in there....as is evident from this thread! Whether you think their dislike is valid or not is irrelevant. You are making someone uncomfortable due to your belief that the rules don't apply to you or your DS. If you don't want to send him into the men's that's fine, he can cross his legs, but it's not on to flout the established rules because you think protecting your son from imaginary perverts is more important than the real discomfort of girls/women using the toilets.

KarmaVersusGeorgeOsbourne · 25/01/2014 19:20

Well, good for you, so do I. However I fail to see why that translates into making public toilets unisex, because not everyone feels the same.

OutragedFromLeeds · 25/01/2014 19:24

'I share my house with men, always have. Got a brother, dad. No problem. With IBS I would be equally embarrassed in front of a male or female. In fact I did have to have a colonoscopy once, performed by a male doctor, and a man delivered my ds'

It's not about you is it?! They're public toilets, it's about everyone using them.

Your rights do not trump the rights of other people. It's that simple. Follow the rules like everyone else.

Petition for unisex toilets by all means, but until then respect the rules and other people's feelings.

capsium · 25/01/2014 19:24

Women have privacy in female toilets though and sometimes rules have to be broken in times of need. I'd take the blame if it came to it. There are incidences people have reported on this thread which are much worse than a bit of embarrassment.

I thank God this issue does not arise too often but yes dodgy Gents or go to the Ladies with me, he could come with me.

capsium · 25/01/2014 19:25

As I have said if the Gents is fine, he could go in there at 9.

OutragedFromLeeds · 25/01/2014 19:31

I think the point is that the gents is almost always going to be fine. The number of boys raped in men's toilets while their mother waits outside is small enough to not even need to worry about.

He's more likely to be abused at school, football practice, scout camp or church.

The 'my boy needs to come into the women's coz of rapists' is simply not valid.

capsium · 25/01/2014 19:39

Maybe only a small risk but some Gents toilets are notorious and the entrances quite closed in and people have reported some nasty experiences on this thread. Taking ds to the Ladies is not a decision I would make as a norm but would be prepared to make if uneasy about the Gents.

I would not comment on another mother taking her ds to a Ladies whilst I was there either.

OutragedFromLeeds · 25/01/2014 19:45

People will be able to report nasty experiences about anything. We'd never let our DC's out the house if we listened to it all.

He's going to be at very, very small risk in the men's toilets his whole life, just as you are when you go to the ladies by yourself. At what age would you say he absolutely must go in the men's? 13? 18? 21? 30?

capsium · 25/01/2014 19:53

I don't Outraged. I'd go with my gut feel at the time, if I feel seriously uneasy I would pay attention to that.

VoyageDeVerity · 25/01/2014 21:05

Omg my ss would have been mortified to be led into the female toilets at 7 let alone 13!

What kind of messages are you giving to your boys here and what on earth is their confidence like? I imagine these boys are v immature.

capsium · 25/01/2014 21:12

I don't think I am communicating clearly, it is not something I would do as a rule. But with an 8 or 9 year old, if uneasy and they were desperate or they were I'll or needed a nasty graze cleaning or something of that ilk then yes. No big deal.

I doubt at 13 a ds would want to go in with you and you would be hunting for alternate toilets or a bush! However some are maybe more vulnerable than others, and the disabled loo might be unavailable.

capsium · 25/01/2014 21:13

^Ill. Autocorrect fail.

OutragedFromLeeds · 25/01/2014 21:38

I think we can all agree that there are circumstances where exceptions need to be made. Being violently sick, needing first aid, having SN or a disability that requires extra help, the men's/women's toilets being closed are all reasons why older children and even adults might need help in the toilets/need to go in the 'wrong' toilets.

This is not in the same ballpark as 'the toilets look dodgy', 'I read a story in the Daily Mail...', 'Sandra from down the road told me a terrible story', 'I don't want him to get raped', 'everyone knows men's toilets are full of perverts'.

The people who take their 9,10,11,12,13 year olds in as matter of course, to avoid them being raped, are being ridiculous.

curlew · 25/01/2014 21:43

And the needs of girls count for nothing.

VivaLeBeaver · 25/01/2014 21:49

I don't have a DS so personally have never had a problem, dd comes in the loo with me.

I'm not one for thinking there's a paedophile on every corner.

However I can't get my knickers in a twist about boy's in the toilets. I don't wee in front of other toilet users. I tend to go in a cubicle and shut the door so don't care who's the other side.

Maybe toilets should all be unisex like in dd's school?

VivaLeBeaver · 25/01/2014 21:54

And sometimes really bad things do happen. As a child I remember an 11 year old girl who was violently raped in the toilets at a popular National Trust spot near where I lived. This was on a busy August day with loads of people around at the main toilets next to the café and gift shop. There were hundreds of people within 50-100 yards. She was so badly raped she needed extensive surgery.

I bet her mum wishes she'd gone to the toilets with her rather than stay at the picnic table.....but like many here say - would you normally think an 11yo needs accompanying?

not just hearsay

capsium · 25/01/2014 21:55

curlew needs have to be balanced all the time. A bit of embarrassment over washing hands is less pertinent than a relatively young boy having to go to urinals by himself if he feels threatened by the men there. Urinals are not particularly private.

Often it would not be an issue, if the toilets were relatively busy / open.

OutragedFromLeeds · 25/01/2014 21:55

The thing is the twistiness of your knickers or mine isn't really relevant Viva.

The fact is, it does bother some women/girls.

The rule is; boys in one, girls in the other.

There is no good reason to flout this rule.

That's it. Simple as that.

I think unisex toilets are probably a good idea, particularly if they could be offered as a third choice, so maybe couple of female cubicles, a couple of urinal separate and the a large family/unisex section.

OutragedFromLeeds · 25/01/2014 22:00

No-one is denying really bad things happen. Do you remember a woman getting gang raped and murdered on a bus, whilst with a male friend? Or the one who had acid thrown in her face on the way home from work? Or the one who got murdered in her flat?

There is risk inherent in life. A 9 year old going to the toilet, while a parent waits outside, is not a risky activity. The risk is not high enough to flout the rules and upset other people.

capsium · 25/01/2014 22:03

Well I'd risk upsetting people if I had to. Sorry.

I'd apologise later.

Daykin · 25/01/2014 22:08

I would worry that the chances of my dd being raped by a teenage boy who nobody thought to kick out of the ladies because it's somehow perfectly fine for teenage boys to be in female spaces would be much higher than the chances of my ds being raped in the male toilets.

I have been sexually assaulted in the ladies by a teenage boy though so my worries may be emotional rather than based on the fact that women/girls are many, many more times likely to be sexually assaulted than boys.

I'm not trying to sound as arsey as I do.

curlew · 25/01/2014 22:15

Yep. Boys needs outweigh girls. That's how it is. But it shouldn't be.

Boys are not at risk in men's loos. They just aren't. But because their mothers are paranoid, girls feelings have to be ignored.

LondonBus · 25/01/2014 22:15

8 yo DD has no SN (apart from dyslexia) but easily gets disorientated/sidtracked, so DH continues to take her with him into the men's if I'm not with them. Stuff anybody who tells me she is old enough.... I don't think she'll be capable enough for another 6 months.

OutragedFromLeeds · 25/01/2014 22:19

'Well I'd risk upsetting people if I had to. Sorry.'

You don't have to. A 9 year old, going to the toilet, whilst his mother waits outside, is safe.

capsium · 25/01/2014 22:35

outraged I would not generalise though. I judge each individual situation. Most of the time the Gents would be ok for a 9 year old boy but I would take them to the Ladies if I felt it was necessary. And if I did I would be accountable.