Oxford comma dilemma

[HotCrossBunplease]

I have started working on a new project and have a colleague whose job it is to manage internal communications. She is lovely and very experienced.

I am the “figurehead” of the project in that all internal messaging says to contact me, and I am responsible for setting the overall tone and content, so I write a first draft and then pass to her for comments.

She has just come back with suggested amendments to our first big announcement and she has sprinkled Oxford commas all over the place. I can’t stand them. Two instances are new lists that she has added, based on wording that I had used in a different sentence structure. A third is a list that was in my original draft, to which she has just added the OC. As you can imagine, the third one rankles the most!

I really want to point out that my original was not wrong and that OCs are a matter of personal style. I could pull rank and make her remove them but that would make me an arsehole and set our working relationship off on the wrong foot. My sentence was this:

“Training will be provided in English, French and Portuguese.”

which has now become

“..English, French, and Portuguese”

The ones she has added are:

“Their enthusiasm, insights, and feedback have been invaluable”

and

“considering the broader impact of [project] on our clients, our practice, and the way we do business.”

I know that OCs are not wrong. I also know that not a single reader will care (apart from one friend of mine in the company who knows about my visceral objection to OCs and will find it hilarious).

Not sure what I even want from this post. A bit of solidarity maybe?

those aren't OCs, they're chatgpt. it looks poor on a project document because it looks as if it's written by ai.

If your org has previously published stuff without them in, you could make the argument that this would be a departure from your usual comma style?

Personally I don't like the inclusion of excess unnecessary punctuation. The Oxford comma is useful for dealing with ambiguity. Otherwise it's pointless. And looks messy.

@HotCrossBunplease YES! Well recognised 🤣. But I’ve left the homeland and teach English to senior pupils abroad and use a lot of red ink on an annoying overabundance of commas! #solidaritywithscottishpedants

• Grammarly puts them in. If she uses Grammarly, that might be why they are there.
• I get twitchy when they aren't there. Maybe she feels the same way?

Keep on fighting that good fight across the globe! I now live outside Scotland too.

I also realised we both have baking-related usernames 😀.

Do you say “treekle” or “treckle” though?

(I say “treekle” but my Granny said “treckle”)

Here’s to Scotland, baking and good grammar. 😉

Surely nobody who needs AI to check their grammar should be working in comms?

I agree. I've started in a new job and everyone seems to use the OC a lot. Another new colleague and I had a discussion about this as we peer review and, like me they're not OC aficionados.

@HotCrossBunplease definitely treekle and while I love it in a scone, I draw the line at a treacle sandwich (so not Oor Wullie)…

@nauticant There's also the ancient village of Scone, which is pronounced Skoon.

I'd just zap the Oxford commas if they annoy you, or if theey don't cohere with the normal style in your comms.

Suggested edits are exactly that. You don't need to say anything about the commas, just use the 'reject change' function.

Would you all be amused to learn that the project we are working on relates to use of an AI tool in our client service? And that (unsurprisingly) one of the most important principles that I am promoting is to ensure that its output is not adopted blindly?

If AI increases the use of bloody OCs everywhere I will not be happy. Feel like I might have to found an Amish-style community that insists on adhering to “the old ways”.

I don’t have control of the document, unfortunately.

I'd say that, in that case, the only thing that matters is consistency, rather than personal preference. If there is inconsistency, either within or between documents, you could mention it. Otherwise, let it go.

she's definitely running it through ai. it's the biggest giveaway when i mark students' 'independent' work.

Sorry I’m Scottish and love an OC.

I write for the US and UK arm of the same company. The US editors love Oxford commas. The UK seldom so but occasionally. I can see an argument for them at times, but “English, French, and Portuguese”? Nope.

I do just let it go though.

Oxford comma needed:
My cousin's music taste includes Fleetwood Mac, Simon and Garfunkel, and The Carpenters.

Oxford comma not needed:
My cousin's music taste includes Queen, Barry Manilow and Abba.

If the organisation is UK-based, don't use them unless it's for clarity.
US-based organisations like them.
Be consistent.

Thanks. I’m confident that they are not needed in the examples in my OP though, wasn’t looking for advice on that.

Oh please don’t go to her boss over Oxford commas, they will both think you’re insane. (I write as an OC-hater, comms professional, journalist and Scot if that helps.) I’d go back to her and ask her to check the house guide on OCs as it’s your stylistic preference not to use them, but if the style guide says ‘yes’ then obviously you’ll abide by that.

It’s Copilot or whatever editor software you have that’s added them in and it does no harm to remind her that the house guide and the machine don’t always align.

I don’t have physical control. But I do have the final say on what is written in it. What I mean is that I can’t amend it without asking her to process the amendment.

Haha missed this one. Oh it will. It so will. I’m working with a client just now who uses AI for all their drafts and I regularly have to go and bleach my eyes. Most people aren’t that confident with punctuation, truth be told, so they’re more than happy to have someone or something telling them what to do.

I wasn’t planning to. I’ve already said I don’t even want to raise it with her directly. I meant that I might ask our Head of Comms at some point what he thinks about OCs in general.

They are not referenced in our style guide.

This might be a good way to start a "standards" conversation with her. I agree with you that it should only be used to clarify ambiguity otherwise it looks messy.

Have a chat saying you noticed she'd added them in and ask what her reasoning was and can you work together to agree a consistent policy.

I'm an editor. I use them if the style guide says they should be used.

My argument to your colleague would be that to a UK -based reader they are jarring and make the text look like it's AI-generated.

Ooh no, they’re bad. AI loves an Oxford comma, maybe she’s using that?