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Pedants' corner

What do you think of this sentence about afternoon tea?

55 replies

MsAmerica · 22/01/2026 01:20

I thought you might like this:

What do you think of this second sentence, purely as a sentence, but also in terms of punctuation?

There was a silver tea-pot, and a silver kettle with a little spirit-lamp underneath, and a silver cream jug and a covered silver dish full of muffins. There was also hot buttered toast and honey and gentleman’s relish and a chocolate cake, a cherry cake, a seed cake and a fruit cake and some tomato sandwiches and pepper and salt and currant bread and butter.

OP posts:
MyThreeWords · 22/01/2026 20:53

Why have you reposted virtually the same thread that you posted in Cunning Linguists?

belleager · 23/01/2026 00:13

Somersetbaker · 22/01/2026 20:43

Possibly acceptable if it was quoting a child, describing the repast, who wouldn't be expected to understand the finer points of grammar and sentence construction, but to say it's Evelyn Waugh it must be ok is total bollocks.

It's Evelyn Waugh and he and his editors probably have serious thought to this construction would be fine, though.

belleager · 23/01/2026 00:24

If you look at the passage in context, we're getting a very direct perspective on affairs from our hero (Adam) and Waugh describes things in fairly laconic style, through Adam's eyes. Adam is exhausted and just back from Italy, where his meals haven't been up to scratch. He is relaxing into an English country house and has just woken up for his tea. He sees the spread described here and thinks of a happy future with his wife to be when he will come here to nurse hangovers.

So the repetitive, undulating style is Adam sleepily taking in the splendid and unexpected spread before him (it's only tea), with the comfortable assurance that he is back in a well ordered English household. His host, we've already been shown at lunchtime, takes food very seriously.

Great writing - I have favourites among Waugh's books and others I don't like at all. I've just read this chapter of this one but I should probably give the whole thing a try.

ErrolTheDragon · 23/01/2026 01:01

Ratty’s hamper shows how it should be done. This sounds like a jumbled mess.

MarxistMags · 23/01/2026 01:23

It's not punctuated correctly. Too many 'ands' .

belleager · 23/01/2026 02:01

ErrolTheDragon · 23/01/2026 01:01

Ratty’s hamper shows how it should be done. This sounds like a jumbled mess.

I would say it's meant to sound messy. Waugh writes that way deliberately. His hero is just waking up.

I don't think you can judge this paragraph in isolation to be honest

upinaballoon · 23/01/2026 07:29

I think Gentleman's Relish should have capitals because it was the name of a product. It's an anchovy paste, I think. Now I'm not sure if that was indeed the name of the spread and I'll go away and look it up in a minute.
The punctuation is a bit strange but I can live with it happily because the writer wanted it to sound like that. It creates a feeling of noticing this and that and, oh look, more and more.

upinaballoon · 23/01/2026 07:32

Yes, Gentleman's Relish. We had some a long time ago and we had it on the pantry shelf for a long time.

PigletJohn · 23/01/2026 07:35

Salt, butter and anchovies, pounded together. The salt content is high enough to preserve it. The plastic container is based on the appearance of the old glazed china one.

Yuasa · 23/01/2026 07:55

Polysyndeton! A stylistic choice rather than an error, and I think it works well.

I hadn’t recognised it. My first thought was that if this is from something like a restaurant review it’s unbearably affected! Very acceptable in a novel, though.

justtheotheronemrswembley · 23/01/2026 13:50

belleager · 22/01/2026 16:36

Commas would be optional here, and I think it flows better without them.

So you prefer and and and and and and and and and and and, do you?😉

belleager · 23/01/2026 14:15

justtheotheronemrswembley · 23/01/2026 13:50

So you prefer and and and and and and and and and and and, do you?😉

Yes, in this case. Waugh's a humorous writer. It gets you into the mind of his character and stops the whole scene from just reading like a shopping list 🙂

VecnasSkinnyLatte · 24/01/2026 07:29

Literary device. Setting the scene. As your mind’s eye imagines the table, more and more delicious delicacies are unveiled.
At times, the strict rules of grammar can be left aside in the hands of a competent writer!

MsAmerica · 24/01/2026 21:07

PollyBell · 22/01/2026 01:47

havent you alread posted this

In this forum? No, I don't think so. Apologies if I did.

OP posts:
MsAmerica · 24/01/2026 21:08

PigletJohn · 22/01/2026 02:57

It may be constructed to convey excitement at the overwhelming range of delicacies.

Like Ratty’s wicker basket.

O my!

Now, THAT I liked. But I don't like this sentence here.

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MsAmerica · 24/01/2026 21:09

Somersetbaker · 22/01/2026 10:50

Needs proper use of commas, rather than repeated conjunctions. "a seed cake and a fruit cake and some tomato sandwiches and pepper and salt and currant bread and butter" is a hideous construction. The writer has obviously heard of the "Oxford comma" so thought he could try a few in the first sentence, but didn't bother in the second, where they may have helped. When I was at school that would have come back crossed out in red.

Ha! Yes!

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MsAmerica · 24/01/2026 21:10

Silverbirchleaf · 22/01/2026 14:00

I didn’t think ‘invite’ was wrong, but your post made me check it out. From reading a couple of different sources, ‘invite’ isn’t wrong, and is perhaps more informal, but ‘invitation’ is the correct form, and should be used in letters, formal situations etc.

Well, @dailyconniptions, isn't wrong, though. Invite is just the lazier modern version.

OP posts:
MsAmerica · 24/01/2026 21:12

MyThreeWords · 22/01/2026 20:53

Why have you reposted virtually the same thread that you posted in Cunning Linguists?

Because initially I wasn't sure which it was right for, and the question was enthusiastically received there, so I thought I'd cross-post it. It seems to have been a good idea, because most here don't seem to have seen it there.
What's your objection? Why do you care?

OP posts:
MsAmerica · 24/01/2026 21:14

Yuasa · 23/01/2026 07:55

Polysyndeton! A stylistic choice rather than an error, and I think it works well.

I hadn’t recognised it. My first thought was that if this is from something like a restaurant review it’s unbearably affected! Very acceptable in a novel, though.

Hm. I'll note down the word.

:)

OP posts:
MsAmerica · 24/01/2026 21:14

upinaballoon · 23/01/2026 07:29

I think Gentleman's Relish should have capitals because it was the name of a product. It's an anchovy paste, I think. Now I'm not sure if that was indeed the name of the spread and I'll go away and look it up in a minute.
The punctuation is a bit strange but I can live with it happily because the writer wanted it to sound like that. It creates a feeling of noticing this and that and, oh look, more and more.

I've run into it in one other novel, but I can't recall where.

OP posts:
belleager · 24/01/2026 22:46

MsAmerica · 24/01/2026 21:12

Because initially I wasn't sure which it was right for, and the question was enthusiastically received there, so I thought I'd cross-post it. It seems to have been a good idea, because most here don't seem to have seen it there.
What's your objection? Why do you care?

Seems fine to me and makes sense to wonder what pedants would make of it.

But I think it wouldn't be anything like so interesting and not even mildly funny if Waugh had been pedantic about conventional use of commas and conjunctions here.

He writes ice-pure prose in something like Brideshead Revisited. He knows what he's doing here. Humour lands differently with different people and this definitely works for me.

upinaballoon · 25/01/2026 11:32

MsAmerica · 24/01/2026 21:14

I've run into it in one other novel, but I can't recall where.

Is it Pater Peperium? I'm not just sure of the Latin and I don't know how to pop over to check in Google/Wiki when I'm in the middle of a sentence on Mumsnet. I wonder if Gentleman's Relish appears in 'Three Men In A Boat' or in any novel by Angela Thirkell.

Walker1178 · 25/01/2026 12:54

I can look past most of it but will never accept ‘pepper and salt’ as being correct!

Choccyp1g · 25/01/2026 12:57

Three men in a boat has a picnic described like this.