These ones...

[Katisha]

I have just found out that saying "these ones" is howlingly incorrect. I suppose all you lot in the corner knew this...Ah well.

Instead of "them ones"?

Explanation

No - it appears that "these" on its own is what you say, not "these ones" as it's tautologous. But "these four" is OK apparently?

Not always - 'these ones here' and 'those ones there'

Oh I see - the point is that 'ones' is superflous - it suppose that would apply to these and those.

So in my example you would just say, 'these here' or 'those there'.

Hmm...Well 'ones' seves as a pronoun, but then 'those' and 'these' are demonstrative pronouns, which then makes them adjectives if 'ones' is a pronoun.....

I grew up with people saying things like 'Look! it's that there one there over by the thing here.'

And I knew exactly what was meant.

You've got DH worried now - he was feeling very confident about this...

Oh good challenge there from LL

Henceforth we should all just point and raise our eyebrows quizzically, it's the only way of avoiding a heinous error.

well technically I suppose "one" is implicit with "this"...

THough of course we will all look like simpletons.

I was thinking that (one) - it feels like an incomplete sentence, doesn't it?

A ha! See 2b.

yes and it would be grammatically incorrect I believe

"Which one do you want?" should lead to "This one please" or "That one please"

and yet

"Which ones do you want?" should lead to "These please" or 'Those please" or quite possibly "The ones over there please"

Re LL's question, do you suppose that etymologically (or is that insects?) 'these' is a contraction of (something like) 'this ones'?

That would explain why 'this one' sounds right but 'these ones' sounds tautologous (which it does).

Seems to me that "this one" and "that one" are OK but "these ones" and "those ones" are not.

Yes, 'these ones', 'those ones' are both wrong, I'm sure.

We are skating perilously close to the dark truth of grammar: no one farking knows why.