Sex 'assigned' at birth

[catelina]

Surely it's 'observed' and 'recorded'?

But that’s exactly the point: it takes that long to find out because you have to wait for the hormones to take affect.

Because people ask when they will find out what the sex of the baby is? Seems like a reasonable question doesn’t it?

Only TRAs use assigned. Everyone else uses 'recorded'.

DinosaurTime has a lot of 'friends' with extremely rare conditions and in vanishingly rare situations. 😆

So you don’t know a single woman who’s had breast cancer or a single woman who’s had IVF?

If you give a man too much pizza and beer, he'll grow "breasts" too! And a belly that looks like he's about to give birth! Still doesn't make him female! It's soooo simple!!

I know plenty and had ivf. But I don't know anyone with a VSD nor anyone with a genetic diseases which warranted sex selection of an embryo.

So you don’t know a single woman who’s had breast cancer

Is this about the XY woman friend you have? Curious as to why your friend didn't realise something was very wrong when she failed to go through female puberty?

Sperm 'washing' isn't 100%. Genetic testing is 100%.

If IVF clinics say they cannot guarantee that a genetically sex selected embryo isn't the sex they say, that's to cover their arses insurance wise. Mistakes do happen - the wrong embryo can be implanted for example. But DNA testing these days is absolutely accurate and pretty easy.

That’s just called fat 😆I didn’t say it turns them into a woman, I just said they would grow breasts – it’s just a biological fact.

Oh dear, no. Sex selection in the UK is illegal except for medical situations where a serious genetic disease exists. So during normal IVF where this is not a consideration, the sex of the embryos won't be identified or discussed. They would find out the sex of any resulting baby the same way other women who are pregnant do, through early screening tests like NIPT or through scans at 20 weeks or so.

I don’t understand the scrutiny here at all. Why would I know how her puberty went if I only met her 5 years ago? Do people tell you about their puberty when they meet you? Do you only have friends from secondary school?

I don’t understand the scrutiny here at all. Why would I know how her puberty went if I only met her 5 years ago? Do people tell you about their puberty when they meet you? Do you only have friends from secondary school?

It's just that you claimed she only found out she was XY when she had breast cancer..which wouldn't be the case at all, she'd find out during the adolescent years.

They didn’t get to pick, they just get informed?

The point about your friend is that if they have the condition you have described, they would have noticed when they were a teenager due to not starting a normal female puberty. This would have happened prior to them developing breast cancer as an adult.

I know a case like this, baby born with mixed sex organs. After some days doctors recommended the baby be a girl and surgery was performed. She is an adult and a lesbian and from what I've heard (I don't ask questions so just hear bits in passing) she is considering transitioning. Seems very sad.

I don't know about her chromosomes but presumably whatever caused the physical confusion might have had some effect mentally. I don't know but it does seem they might have made the wrong decision and yes her sex was assigned.

Very good point! I’ll be sure to ask her about that next time I see her.

Midwives and doctors don't use the term unless there attempts conflicting signs

Embryos for IVF are selected based on which are the "best", the healthiest, judged on several specific criteria. The sex of the embryo is not one of them.

You are confusing sex and gender. No male becomes female by taking oestrogen. They develop certain characteristics, but that doesn't make them female. They don't suddenly lose penis/testicles and grow a uterus and ovaries and external genitalia, do they? A man who wants to present as a woman is doing precisely that; they don't change sex, but gender.
(Had to get that off my chest)

Well, yes. Of course there are exceptions which have to be proved by genetic testing, in which case the sex will be recorded as undeterminable, but generally sex is observed at birth.

There are people on here who need to go and read a basic biology book before spouting so much crap though.

Very good point! I’ll be sure to ask her about that next time I see her

I find it strange that despite supposedly knowing so much about it, you didn't pick up/ question what you were told. Odd.

The sex of the embryo is determined at conception. In a small number of people, either a genetic error in the sex chromosomes, or specific errors in gene replication, affect the sexual development of the embryo and can cause a condition with a variation of sexual development (VSD or DSD). Endocrine disruption can also cause differences in the pattern of sex development.

The development of the embryo moves along a specific pathway with various aspects of sex development switching on at different times - VSDs and endocrine disruption can affect this, but the development of male nipples etc. is a red herring, because it happens whether an embryo develops along the usual sex pathways or not.

The idea of intersex you talk about here is very outdated, and for a very long time now it has not been practice to decide to operate to “confirm” a child with a VSD in a specific sex, without extreme care and genetic confirmation, and a very detailed treatment programme. The kind of thing you’re talking about - doctors just “making a call” and removing body parts - hasn’t been the case for a long time, decades - at least since the early 1980s.

Sorry I’m not an expert on biology, I’m just going by what I’ve read and been told? I didn’t know I had to interview my friends on their biological properties 😆

When I was young, 60s I think, there was a famous case of a female skier who had been brought up as a girl and passed the sex tests at the time (basically they would have to take their pants down and a doctor looked at genitals) was found to be male when genetic tests came in, late 60s early 70s?

I seem to remember she decided to have surgery and live as a man and I think became a father.

Not sure why she didn't know she was a male but with her genitals being internal instead of external but one explanation I can think of is that very often very fit athletes don't menstruate so maybe that was it. Or maybe we were all a bit less knowledgeable back then.

I'll have a google and see if I can find it. I think she was Austrian.

Actually I don't know if I should say he or she, obviously when she was a famous skier we knew her as female.