Examples of errors that have been normalised?

[spicedsoup]

Language evolves and I assume there are words or expressions that exist that developed from common misunderstandings or variations in usage. I don’t know of any examples though! Do you have any examples or know where I can find out more about how the English language has evolved?

I’ll also share that part of the reason I am curious is because I am irrationally concerned that one day ‘of’ in place of ‘ ‘ve’ as the contracted ‘have’ will become accepted as correct due to common usage. I’ll be an old lady ranting at young ones, “In my day it was HAVE! HAVE, I tell you!”. So I’m wondering what the precedent is

I have a couple of teacher friends who always use "and I" when it should be "and me". I have thus far restrained myself from yelling at them to please teach their pupils the correct use of "I and me" but every time I do it I despair of the state of education today.

I have a teacher friend who used to do exactly the same. I corrected her. She didn't believe me, reminding me that our primary school headteacher always used to correct children who said 'John and me did ...'

I had to explain why 'John and me went swimming' was wrong when 'He gave it to John and me' was correct.

Back in the 1960s, when we were at primary school together, 'John and me did x' was a very common mistake, but I don't remember anyone then using 'I' when they should have said 'me'.

I wonder whether the frequent correction of one mistake, without an explanation of why and how it was wrong, is actually what caused the other mistake. The lesson that children learned was that 'John and me' was wrong and 'John and I' was right.

@Fifthtimelucky

I have a couple of teacher friends who always use "and I" when it should be "and me". I have thus far restrained myself from yelling at them to please teach their pupils the correct use of "I and me" but every time I do it I despair of the state of education today.

I have a teacher friend who used to do exactly the same. I corrected her. She didn't believe me, reminding me that our primary school headteacher always used to correct children who said 'John and me did ...'

I had to explain why 'John and me went swimming' was wrong when 'He gave it to John and me' was correct.

Back in the 1960s, when we were at primary school together, 'John and me did x' was a very common mistake, but I don't remember anyone then using 'I' when they should have said 'me'.

I wonder whether the frequent correction of one mistake, without an explanation of why and how it was wrong, is actually what caused the other mistake. The lesson that children learned was that 'John and me' was wrong and 'John and I' was right.

I wonder whether the frequent correction of one mistake, without an explanation of why and how it was wrong, is actually what caused the other mistake. The lesson that children learned was that 'John and me' was wrong and 'John and I' was right.

I agree, I've long thought that is the reason it has become so common.

I actually don't mind people using "me and Johnny" or "Johnny and me" when it should be "Johnny and I" provided it is in spoken language or very casual written language (e.g. a 3 word text responding to the question "who's going?"). The key factor is that the speaker knows the correct usage but is going with a more casual usage. I'm nothing if not inconsistent in my pedantry

I also think people think it sounds more formal so use it to sound more correct iykwim, which contributes to my irritation.

'May have' can be used when talking about past possibilities, ResurrectionInfinity.

@ClaudiusTheGod

My MIL will say she is 'going to learn him how to do something' instead of 'teach'.

Hugely common in Liverpool, where they also swap ‘borrow’ and ‘lend’. eg Can I have a lend of that book? Can you borrow me that magazine? (although ‘book’ is often a catch-all word which includes magazines).

Yes mixing up borrow and lend is another one that makes my teeth hurt!!

We must be about due another series of Masterchef, which is rife with the 'and I' error.

'You've made this a very tough decision for John and I!'

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Punctuation where no punctuation needs to be.

Your thread title is an example of this. It doesn't need a question mark, because it isn't a question.

Disinterested does not mean uninterested.

Actually, the "not interested/uninterested" meaning of disinterested is older than the "impartial" meaning of the word going back as far as 1600 or so. It shifted sometime later, and grammarians began to insist on a distinction between the two. The meaning is now shifting back. "Dis" and "un" mean essentially the same thing. It's different meanings of "interest" that keep the distinction alive.

[quote spicedsoup]@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll panino

I’m sure one would get a raised eyebrow asking for two cappuccini as well. Is there some sort of rule when pluralising/conjugating (and whatever else!) words from other languages? Or do we create rules on a case-by-case basis? [/quote]
'Blinis' drives Russians mad. But then, everything seems to drive Russians mad.
If you persist in misusing die and dice you can't say 'the die is cast' which I would find a deprivation as I am arsey and pretentious.

My pet peeve is the use of “off” instead of “from”.

Such as

I bought this off Asda.

When I should be

I bought this from Asda.

Yes, my other pet peeve is “of” instead of “have”.

Both seem to be generally accepted these days.

@Marynotsocontrary

'May have' can be used when talking about past possibilities, ResurrectionInfinity.

But only if the possibility still exists.

The R in February will go. It's already gone in pronunciation.

Not in our house! We also refuse to call the day 'Wenzday'!

Can I have a lend of that book?

I'm not 100% convinced that this is unequivocally incorrect. Obviously, "Can I lend it off/from you" is entirely wrong - but "Can I have a lend of" doesn't make it at all explicit from whose perspective you're thinking.

Nobody would say that going to the bank and asking "Can I have a loan" was wrong - just because the person asking is not the one doing the lending - so I'm resolutely on the fence about that one!

Forgive me if someone has already said this because I haven't read the whole thread yet. I believe that long ago if I had been talking about the book of Richard I would have said "Richard his book" but laziness over the centuries has brought me to a place where I say "Richard's book".

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

Can I have a lend of that book?

I'm not 100% convinced that this is unequivocally incorrect. Obviously, "Can I lend it off/from you" is entirely wrong - but "Can I have a lend of" doesn't make it at all explicit from whose perspective you're thinking.

Nobody would say that going to the bank and asking "Can I have a loan" was wrong - just because the person asking is not the one doing the lending - so I'm resolutely on the fence about that one!

Lend is a verb, not a noun. Perfectly acceptable to say "Can I have a loan of the book?" though. Equally, "Can you lend me the book?" is also correct.

That said, it is often used colloquially as a noun in the way you describe.

@Babymamamama

People saying mischievious instead of mischievous.

I came on to say this. Drives me mad!

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

We must be about due another series of Masterchef, which is rife with the 'and I' error.

'You've made this a very tough decision for John and I!'

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

My Lancashire friend (teacher of inthants, retired) told me about that one when we were having a little grumble about grammar on the telephone. (Now I want to draw a telephone with a little grumble sitting on the top of it.) It's fairly easy to send messages to the BBC. You can send the message for the exact person.

"Send it to myself"

"John and I's relationship"

These two examples hurt me.

@crackofdoom

Similarly, in written English: discrete in the place of discreet.

Why? I provide services that are both discrete and discreet.

I "borrowed" £50 to my friend.
How?

I am irritated by the lack of understanding that some words have changed their meaning over time.
Quite recently a newspaper apologised because a reader had read an article written around 100 years go which said ‘her pathetic body’ in relation to (I think) a suicide.
When it was written the word meant (and still can) ‘inspiring compassion’ (derived from pathos). But the reader who complained thought they had meant it in the now more common usage of ‘stupid/ridiculous/inspiring contempt’. And the newspaper apologised!!

'May have' can be used when talking about past possibilities, ResurrectionInfinity.

But only if the possibility still exists.

Hmm, I'm not sure that's a rule. Whether a possibility still exists or not can sometimes be subjective anyway.

@spicedsoupThe word 'apron' used to be 'napron', and 'adder' (the snake) used to be 'nadder'.

They lost their n because people would say 'a napron' or 'a nadder', and it sounded like they were saying 'an apron/an adder'. Eventually the wrong pronunciation became so widespread it became the correct one!

Enormity - does not mean scale;
Usage - does not mean use;
Momentarily - means for a while, not in a while.

I'll think of more.

Drives me nuts when any sports commentator says, 'I think he played amazing'. AMAZINGLY for God's sake!!!!!!!!!

@Marynotsocontrary

'May have' can be used when talking about past possibilities, ResurrectionInfinity.

But only if the possibility still exists.

Hmm, I'm not sure that's a rule. Whether a possibility still exists or not can sometimes be subjective anyway.

People can lie or be mistaken, but there is a difference between the present tense and the past tense. The difference between may and might is the difference between it is possible and it was possible.

To say:
He may not have died if procedures had been followed.
Is like saying
It is possible that he didn’t die if procedures had been followed.