Examples of errors that have been normalised?

[spicedsoup]

Language evolves and I assume there are words or expressions that exist that developed from common misunderstandings or variations in usage. I don’t know of any examples though! Do you have any examples or know where I can find out more about how the English language has evolved?

I’ll also share that part of the reason I am curious is because I am irrationally concerned that one day ‘of’ in place of ‘ ‘ve’ as the contracted ‘have’ will become accepted as correct due to common usage. I’ll be an old lady ranting at young ones, “In my day it was HAVE! HAVE, I tell you!”. So I’m wondering what the precedent is

@KaptainKaveman

Cliché. The noun has somehow morphed into the adjective. " That's so cliché ".

Comprises of. NO! IT'S 'COMPRISES'
Return back. NO! IT'S 'RETURN'.
Continue on. NO! IT'S 'CONTINUE'.
Revert back. NO! IT'S 'REVERT'.

Not long ago on a similar thread I tried my hardest to explain exactly why 'irregardless' is a made up double negative which cancels itself out, but some people just couldn't grasp it ( bangs head against wall).

I was thinking cliché instead of clichéd too.

Another one is "click" rather than clique.

Oops, thank you, Clumping - it was tiny on my screen, so I haven't read the whole thing yet

Most people will say that something is 'clichéD', though - adding a past participle when it already has one. See also 'sautéeD potatoes'.

One of my pet hates (I don't think it's been mentioned yet), is the word dice when applied to a single die. Sadly, the battle is just about lost, in that anybody talking about 'throwing the die' will be stared at and considered a pretentious show-off (by those who do know what it should be, but have capitulated) or just plain stupid (by those who don't know). Also, just try asking for a panino.

@MotherofAutism it's not always Johnny and I.
If you can leave the other person out it's me.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll panino

I’m sure one would get a raised eyebrow asking for two cappuccini as well. Is there some sort of rule when pluralising/conjugating (and whatever else!) words from other languages? Or do we create rules on a case-by-case basis?

Doesn’t one of the later Adrian Mole books have him repeatedly trying to order a ‘panino’ from generally bemused cafe staff?

@ComeUnderMySexBlanket

"Begs the question". This is now more or less universally (mis)used to mean "raises the question".

That's the first one that came to my mind. My maths teacher many years ago used to use it (correctly) to shout at us when doing mathematical proofs "Don't beg the question!"

Is there some sort of rule when pluralising/conjugating (and whatever else!) words from other languages? Or do we create rules on a case-by-case basis? hmm

I've also never understood the many people who will pronounce the word envelope as 'ON-velope'. If you consider it a French word, say 'OHN-vey-loppe'; if you consider that it's now an English word, say 'EN-vuh-lope' - but whatever is the point in using a bizarre hybrid of the two languages?!

Also, on the same theme, I hear so many (native English-speaking) people pronounce the French car manufacturer as 'Pyoo-zho'. Again, I'd understand either 'Per-zho' or 'Pyoo-jee-utt', but what possibly leads you to an odd mixture of both?!

@DramaAlpaca

'Off of' used instead of 'off' is working its ugly way into normal useage. I cringe when I hear it.

Yes. I despise this.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

Is there some sort of rule when pluralising/conjugating (and whatever else!) words from other languages? Or do we create rules on a case-by-case basis? hmm

I've also never understood the many people who will pronounce the word envelope as 'ON-velope'. If you consider it a French word, say 'OHN-vey-loppe'; if you consider that it's now an English word, say 'EN-vuh-lope' - but whatever is the point in using a bizarre hybrid of the two languages?!

Also, on the same theme, I hear so many (native English-speaking) people pronounce the French car manufacturer as 'Pyoo-zho'. Again, I'd understand either 'Per-zho' or 'Pyoo-jee-utt', but what possibly leads you to an odd mixture of both?!

I’m bilingual, I don’t pay attention to mispronunciations of words from my second language, but I’m always a bit at the people who insist on pronouncing the non-English words in the ‘authentic’ way whilst speaking English, especially as they then so often get it wrong! When I speak in English I use anglicised pronunciation, otherwise I feel like I’m being a weird show off

I now remember Omid Djalili had a bit on this years ago!

Macko for macho sounds pretentious and wrong. Onvelope is so widespread, or used to be, that I don’t regard it as pretentious. Pinochet wasn’t so much anglicised as frenchified. Everyone said Pinoshay.

Less/Fewer used interchangeably

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

News readers all saying "uptick" now instead of "increase".

I've also just recently noticed on several occasions (they may have been doing it for ages, though!) that the BBC have started using the American newspaper headline comma in place of 'and' or '&' on their news website - e.g. (made up example) "Tesco, Asda report that food price rises cannot be avoided."

Ah someone on the covid boards said that this is a technical term, it's been falling and then starts to go up again like a tick. (Thats fhe right use for it)

@DockOTheBay

Less/Fewer used interchangeably

Socio-linguistic thought is that that will definitely be one that gets absorbed into "correctness" sooner, rather than later. No bad thing really, especially as the actual "rules" are nowhere near as linear as less-uncountable, fewer - uncountable that a lot of people think. (If anyone is interested, there's a long thread on here from some years ago now discussing the reasons- it was around the time that Tesco (iirc) was ridiculed for saying "five items or less" and actually changed it to "fewer" even though in that instance, there was nothing wrong with "less")

Most other "upcoming" (in linguistic terms- so over a couple of generations) will be in spelling norms. We've already seen that all new verbs have regular past tense endings, and so lots of irregular verbs are moving slowly towards the same (dreamt/dreamed etc- always been used, but becoming the "norm")

The R in February will go. It's already gone in pronunciation.

Etc etc.

@spicedsoup

The pronunciation and grammar of foreign words absorbed into the language is interesting- and varies across languages. It's generally a lengthy process to completely become a word of the new language- 100/200 years.

There are no real grammar "rules" about it, the L1 society just applies what it knows about its own language to the L2 word. So we get "one panini" and Paris pronounced with an /s/ on the end.

Interestingly, other languages do different things to incoming words. Italian takes lots of English words but modifies the meaning slightly, or uses English bits and pieces to do different things- "footing"= jogging for example.

"There's (there is) some biscuits in the tin" rather than "there are some biscuits in the tin".

@ResurrectionInfinity

Someone mentioned ‘May’ and ‘might’. The reluctance to use ‘might’ is almost as great as the reluctance to use ‘and me’. The difference is between: what may have happened (but we’ll never know) And What might have been (if only we’d done things differently).

Thank you

Fellow pedants who wince at excessive use of 'myself', 'yourself' and so on may enjoy this transcript of the introduction to the Radio 4 Cabin Pressure episode, Johannesburg. John Finnemore nails it here, as so often.

(Bing bong.)
ARTHUR: Ladies and gentlemen, as you can see, our onboard transit process today has now reached its ultimate termination.
CAROLYN: He means we’ve landed.
ARTHUR: Yes. So, as yourselves prepare for disemboarding, if I could kindly ask you to kindly ensure you retain all your personal items about your person throughout the duration of the disembarkation.
CAROLYN: He means take your stuff with you.
ARTHUR: In concluding, it’s been a privilege for ourselves to conduct yourselves through the in-flight experience today, and I do hope you’ll re-favour ourselves with the esteem of your forth-looking custom going forward.
CAROLYN: ... No idea.

(Just discovered that all transcripts are available here: arianedevere.livejournal.com/76820.html)

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g
That’s excellent!
There was a tiny window of opportunity when my husband managed to download all the episodes, but they seem to be unavailable now.

‘Oversight’ seemed to take off really quickly with barely a murmur of protest at its new meaning.

There is no difference between "may" and "might" when talking about probability.
"It may have happened" and "It might have happened" mean exactly the same thing.

There is a difference in formality when used for permission. Might is more formal than may, which is, in turn, more formal than could.

Obviously, as pp has said, the context of the other words following the may/might can also change the meaning, but ultimately (when speaking about probability) they are synonyms.

My MIL will say she is 'going to learn him how to do something' instead of 'teach'. Makes me die a little inside - but I don't think this one is too common 😂

@PAFMO

There is no difference between "may" and "might" when talking about probability. "It may have happened" and "It might have happened" mean exactly the same thing.

There is a difference in formality when used for permission. Might is more formal than may, which is, in turn, more formal than could.

Obviously, as pp has said, the context of the other words following the may/might can also change the meaning, but ultimately (when speaking about probability) they are synonyms.

Really? What about ‘If procedures had been followed they may have saved his life’ Surely that’s the wrong tense.

‘May’ is present tense so the possibility still exists, if only in our minds, whilst ‘might’ is past tense so the possibility existed but no longer does.

My MIL will say she is 'going to learn him how to do something' instead of 'teach'.

Hugely common in Liverpool, where they also swap ‘borrow’ and ‘lend’. eg Can I have a lend of that book? Can you borrow me that magazine? (although ‘book’ is often a catch-all word which includes magazines).