Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Pedants' corner

Examples of errors that have been normalised?

291 replies

spicedsoup · 13/03/2022 16:52

Language evolves and I assume there are words or expressions that exist that developed from common misunderstandings or variations in usage. I don’t know of any examples though! Do you have any examples or know where I can find out more about how the English language has evolved?

I’ll also share that part of the reason I am curious is because I am irrationally concerned that one day ‘of’ in place of ‘ ‘ve’ as the contracted ‘have’ will become accepted as correct due to common usage. I’ll be an old lady ranting at young ones, “In my day it was HAVE! HAVE, I tell you!”. So I’m wondering what the precedent is Grin

OP posts:
SenecaFallsRedux · 17/03/2022 12:05

@catwomando

I live in daily fear that 'draws' instead of 'drawers' will become accepted. Shock
Not a problem for those of us with rhotic accents. Smile
ResurrectionInfinity · 17/03/2022 16:02

Ah yes, the old "what did your last slave die of" - "he died of a Tuesday".

Blimey! How many lives did he have?

ResurrectionInfinity · 17/03/2022 17:17

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

I had no idea with February or someone mentioned Wednesday earlier blush I’m sure as a child I was taught they had silent sounds. I remember a whole thing on it in Year 1 or Year 2!

It was also I who mentioned Wednesday Grin

This is the whole issue at hand though: errors that become normalised aren't universally known/acknowledged as 'wrong but widely accepted' but, before long, they become 'fact' to most people. Whether it's teachers, parents or any other adults, once you firmly believe something to be a fact, that is what you will teach any children in your care; why would you do anything else?

Anybody who does know and persists in trying to ensure the survival of the correct form will be considered stupid for 'not knowing' and may even be criticised for confusing people by spreading 'false' information.

I remember when we visited our DS's class for a reading session (Y1 or Y2, iirc) and the teachers had spent time making sweet little learning aids for every table depicting two caterpillars of obviously different lengths - one labelled 'longest' and the other as 'shortest'.

The difference between comparative and superlative has been completely lost to most people - so how are they ever going to teach what they have no knowledge of to children? When did you last hear a parent of two children refer to their 'younger' or 'elder' child? We've still retained "This is longer THAN that one" but not "This is the longer of the two".

I think the subjunctive has gone the same way too. People will accidentally get it right for the vast majority of regular verbs, where it happens to be the same, but when did you last hear anybody say "It's important that you be there on time"?

The normalised error is most commonly apparent when (mis)used in the third person. Have you ever recently heard anybody say something like "I must insist that she make her own way there next week"?

I pronounce the ‘d’ in Wednesday but only one ‘r’ in February. Sometimes a previously correct pronunciation can provoke hostility as it is seen as American. I have this problem with my pronunciation of ‘privacy’. I don’t know at what point ‘it used to be the only correct pronunciation’ (OED 1909) becomes a ridiculous defence. The present subjunctive without ‘should’ usually sounds more American than Shakespearean to me, I have to admit. On comparatives, I have never seen a way in English to distinguish between them if you have two older siblings of the same sex. Should it be my older older brother and my younger older brother?
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 17/03/2022 18:44

On comparatives, I have never seen a way in English to distinguish between them if you have two older siblings of the same sex. Should it be my older older brother and my younger older brother?

I suppose comparatives are normally from an outside perspective, but that's a very good point if you are actually one of the people being compared, and speaking with yourself as a point of reference! I'm not certain that I have a satisfactory answer, really, other than maybe referring from afar e.g. "My older brother, the middle child" and "My older brother, the eldest". If you also have younger siblings and/or sisters, who knows?!

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 17/03/2022 18:49

Another one: 'candelabra' - a plural that is now pretty much exclusively used as a singular. In fact, people will routinely add an 's' if they are referring to more than one of them!

upinaballoon · 17/03/2022 20:34

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

Another one: 'candelabra' - a plural that is now pretty much exclusively used as a singular. In fact, people will routinely add an 's' if they are referring to more than one of them!
I once asked someone if it was candleabra or candelabra, and was told it was candelabrum. My corrector was a lovely person and we smiled about it, and I still do.Smile
whoseafraidofnaomiwolf · 17/03/2022 20:37

Normalcy

Aaaaaaaarrrghghghgghg!!!!

It's 'normality' - 'normalcy' is. NOT. A. WORD ... or it wasn't, apparently it is now. Angry

Thank you.
That felt good to get it off my chest Grin

Doona · 17/03/2022 20:52

"the word normal entered the English language in the mid-1840s, followed by normality in 1849, and normalcy in 1857."
lithub.com/how-exactly-did-we-come-up-with-what-counts-as-normal/

Normality is more common but not necessarily more correct than normalcy.

LadyIckenham · 17/03/2022 21:42

Am very tired of reading that people are trying their upmost.

And would like spellcheck to stop trying to get me to write practice instead of practise when I am using the verb Angry

DadDadDad · 18/03/2022 10:39

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll - what's wrong with the suggestion by @ResurrectionInfinity of saying "my older older brother"? It doesn't seem ungrammatical to me. While it's clearly a bit unusual and might even sound like a mistake on first hearing, in the right context the reader / hearer can work out a meaning for it. No need for any clunky alternatives.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 18/03/2022 10:48

what's wrong with the suggestion by ResurrectionInfinity of saying "my older older brother"? It doesn't seem ungrammatical to me. While it's clearly a bit unusual and might even sound like a mistake on first hearing, in the right context the reader / hearer can work out a meaning for it. No need for any clunky alternatives.

No, I quite agree.

cooldarkroom · 18/03/2022 17:55

my eldest brother, my 2nd eldest brother, surely ?

Iknowitisheresomewhere · 18/03/2022 18:03

Saying 'my eldest brother' makes it clear that you have 2 older brothers, but I don't know how you refer to the middle one if you are the youngest or oldest. I would probably say 'my older brother next in age to me'. But if there were 4 brothers, that wouldn't work for some of the positions - I think in that case I would say 2nd eldest.

ResurrectionInfinity · 18/03/2022 18:11

@cooldarkroom

my eldest brother, my 2nd eldest brother, surely ?
But it seems wrong to say my eldest brother when I only have two.
ResurrectionInfinity · 18/03/2022 19:26

Older big brother might be better.

ResurrectionInfinity · 18/03/2022 19:30

and younger big brother?

DadDadDad · 18/03/2022 20:04

I find these expressions quite entertaining:

"I wish I had older brothers. I imagine myself fighting with the younger older brother, but I like to think the older older brother would have protected me. As it is, my younger brothers are a pain: the middle younger brother doesn't get on with his elder brother or the other brother, but the eldest brother just ignores his younger brothers, and the youngest likes the younger of his elder brothers but hates the older one." Comedy gold Smile

ResurrectionInfinity · 18/03/2022 20:12

Ending with ‘how many brothers are there?’
Because I’m certainly lost.Smile

Marynotsocontrary · 18/03/2022 22:26

This is why we use names Grin

sanityisamyth · 19/03/2022 07:50

The 'flu. It's just 'flu!!! You don't say "the arthritis" or "the cancer" or "the athlete's foot". So why THE 'flu?!

Also, why are the supermarkets plural? Tescos, Asdas, Lidls etc.

Apostrophes also need to be in every word ending in -s these days. No idea why!

Sainsbury's is owned by the Sainsburys family. Hence the 's.

I didn't mention Sainsbury's as I'm aware that should have an 's, although it is owned by the Sainsbury family, not the Sainsburys family ...

ResurrectionInfinity · 19/03/2022 10:09

@sanityisamyth

Also, why are the supermarkets plural? Tescos, Asdas, Lidls etc.

I think the answer, if you actually want one, is that they aren’t plural.
People aren’t saying Tescos: they are saying Tesco’s by analogy, if that’s the right term, with Sainsbury’s and Morrison’s.

ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 03/04/2022 09:04

@LadyMacduff

I really don't think 'of' will replace ''ve', as it makes no sense. When people understand that it's the same as saying " I of done that this morning", then they see better why it needs to be 'have'.
Of a nice day!

Martin Luther King: "I Of A Dream"

I spent some time in and out of prison (not what you think!) and when I saw the tables that the guys worked at they were covered in graffiti marking their territory. Things like:

"Dave ov Leeds"
"Stan ov Brum"

I think they knew that wasn't the correct spelling but was almost a "prison thing" based on phonetic writing. Not everyone has been banged up, I know, but could this of have anything to do with it?

TheRealBoswell · 04/04/2022 05:46

Been vs Gone. How would you explain the difference?

OchonAgusOchonOh · 04/04/2022 08:34

@TheRealBoswell

Been vs Gone. How would you explain the difference?
I don't get that. Been and gone are completely different. I don't see how they could be confused.
StCharlotte · 04/04/2022 08:41

Invite as a noun.

Swipe left for the next trending thread