Letting them make big decisions and accepting their choices

[BeRedHedgehog]

I'm really struggling today with my DS18, who is doing a degree apprenticeship (since last September). He has told me he wants to quit as he doesn't feel motivated to do the work or the study. He wants to get a minimum wage job and claims not to care about money, or if he ends up homeless. He is not great with communication and struggles to 'put on a face', which I worry will mean he won't be able to get another job. His current job is perfect, and he is good at it. It should lead to permanent, well paid work once his degree is finished.
I know he's an adult and I should let him make his own decisions, but I'm struggling with how. I've told him I love him, and that he could never disappoint me, but I've also explained my concerns about not getting another job and the lack of motivation he is likely to have working in McDonald's (for example), which is the reason he's citing to quit the apprenticeship.
Any advice on how to handle this??

I would be concerned he’s really not coping.

you think the job is perfect but he hates it so much he’s saying he’d rather be homeless? Something is going wrong here and putting on the pressure to make him stay is unlikely to fix it.

can you have an open conversation with him about how it’s going? Whether it’s what he expected?

I wouldn’t care about money if my parents were paying for everything. If he’s making the decisions of an adult then he also needs to have the consequence that an adult would face. I’m not saying chuck him out but you need to find a way of showing him the realities of life.

He considered uni and we'd gone to open days. He was wavering on the degree to do, despite always aiming for a specific one. Out of the blue he was offered the apprenticeship from somewhere he'd done work experience. We discussed all the pros and cons and he accepted the apprenticeship. He's wobbled a few times when his friends at uni are having more lie ins and socialising. He felt restricted when they come home and meet up during the holidays, and DS has to work. He has other friends in more blue collar roles that have no responsibilities outside of work hours so can go out without thinking about coursework deadlines. I'm wondering if this is all influencing things. But he's saying he doesn't want to do a different degree if he quits, just get a normal job.

I've asked and he says he's not motivated. He thought he could just get on with it doing the minimum, but realises that after the first term, the workload at uni is getting harder and he's being given more complex projects at work that you can't coast on. He's always done well academically, and never really had to stretch himself - I think this is half the problem as he's never had to work hard for anything.

Doesn't care if he's homeless? I'm sorry for this, but that's someone being incredibly stupid and immature. Where's he going to live? Have you asked him that?

Then I would take him at his word and ask him when he’s moving out. The gravy train needs to stop. I know this will be controversial but I really don’t think parents who let their children live with them way into adulthood do them any favours. It might be cheaper and kinder etc. but there’s a lot to be said for experiencing just how shit life can be when you have no money, and as someone who has lived in shitholes in her early twenties I know without a shadow of a doubt I will work my arse off to never end up there again. My sisters (who are older than me) and were pandered to by my parents and lived at home well into their thirties still have not managed to stay in a job for longer than a year between them and constantly get help (my 46 year old sister only moved out of my mum’s house two years ago!)

Let him see how tough life actually is OP.

Agreed. About 30 odd years ago ('94 or '95), I sat, unemployed, in my council flat, and the power went off. I was on a credit meter and not only had it run down to zero, I'd used up the £15 (I think it was £15...) Emergency Credit. I'd never felt so low, lost, and pathetic. See how he likes living like that because that's what fending for yourself looks like.

Absolutely. I’ll never forget how despondent I was when I finally managed to move into my own studio flat after a few years of being a lodger. Initially I thought I’d hit the jackpot and then when I got the keys and looked around the tiny room squeezed into the top floor of a shop behind an industrial air vent I had a little cry. These moments are important - they can often be the making of a person.

There's a lot of envy in the comments from people who didn't have love, guidance or financial support from their parents. Why would you wish such a life on someone just because it happened to you?
The OP clearly cares for him and wants to guide him to make the right choices. Making him destitute is hardly going to help.
I think the DSs comment on being homeless was a response to his mum saying that could be what happened if he had no job, not that he genuinely wanted it.

I think the poster who suggested he was struggling with the workload nailed it. Many bright kids start to find it tough at uni when they never have before, especially if they are on a more academic course. At least at uni there's some comradeship, fellow course mates. A degree apprenticeship is lonely. A friend had a DC who did this and it was tough. She had to put more work into supporting him than ever at school or college. He got their in the end and is now an architect.
. Out of the blue he was offered the apprenticeship from somewhere he'd done work experience
Having said that it does feel like he dropped into it accidentally rather than making an active choice to go for this career.

I've talked again to him today (as he'd asked me what I really feel about the situation), and I was very honest. I said that I thought he was unmotivated because he was afraid of trying and failing because it was better to justify failing if you didn't try (as I did when I was his age but took years to figure out); that he's being naive and privileged when he says he doesn't care about money or being homeless; that he doesn't know how great an opportunity this is for him and that he'll end up regretting it in the future. He argued the point, but then said his friends had convinced him to go to uni instead (last night in the pub), so he's now thinking about doing that. I explained the loans that need paying back, the extra money he would need to earn to cover what the loans don't cover, and that he doesn't even know what subject he wants to do (he says something creative that doesn't lead to a job). I pointed out he would still be studying full time, and working to earn enough money, and would have £45000 to pay back at the end of it. Apparently, by pointing this out, I'm essentially blocking him from doing what he wants. I told him that I found out yesterday my job is at risk due to funding cuts, and we won't be able to pay the extra his friends are getting from their parents for him to go to uni. He doesn't see the irony of saying he doesn't care about money or being homeless, and then stropping we won't pay for him to arse about at uni for three years!

My kids live with me- on and off- rent-free! 😀 They pay not a penny. And never will. That's how much support I give. But they are/ were studying and working.

That's a really difficult decision for you. I think all you can do is set out the potential consequences - and also the financial implications of him going to uni, what you will be able/willing to contribute, how much he will have to work to fund himself and the importance of getting internships and work experience while he's there.

My two have both had to work part time either alongside uni or in the holidays. It's been a really hard juggle at times. They've also struggled with motivation for their studies. It's not an easy option, but if your son takes it with full knowledge of what's involved, then perhaps he will be more committed? It will be an active choice, whereas it sounds like he fell into the apprenticeship.

I also think you should explain that you've been financially supporting him (ie not charging him for rent/bills) because he's in education. Therefore if he gets a minimum wage job, he will need to pay a bit more to you. I definitely wouldn't let him quit before he's got his minimum wage job either.

I do care about his happiness, and am trying hard to listen to his wishes. If he had a clear plan (even just loosely) of what he wants to do and has shown the gumption to research and figure some of it out, I absolutely wouldn't have a problem with letting him take charge of his life. He is passive, and you are right that he fell into the apprenticeship, when every other apprentice I know had to show grit and determination to get there. I've said to him he needs to be more proactive, but his plans seem to change based on which friends he's been talking to. He has some that work standard jobs, some at uni and some at vocational college. Depending on who he's been talking to, his ideas change for what he wants to do. He never goes any closer to looking into it though, and seems to expect others to do everything. I don't want to be another voice telling him what to do, but equally I don't want him influenced by his friends that mean well but don't realise how passive he is. How can I give him the confidence to do what he wants, when he really has no clue or resolution to research and find out what that is, just waits for others to tell him?

If you have a DH or DP, what does he say?
I do think wanting to be 'creative without a job' is self-indulgent.

DH agrees that if he wants to quit, he needs a job arranged first and that he will have to start paying his way. He hasn't heard the new 'plan' about going to uni as he'd left for work before DS and I talked. DS is very similar to his dad, who was in a minimum wage job coasting when we met. He had no concept of what things cost or how he was going to afford leaving home (lived with parents still). With encouragement, DH completed a degree as a mature student and used that to get his ideal job. He now understands what is needed to live a comfortable life (not luxurious, but don't worry about basic necessities). It feels a bit like deja vu as DH used to be very passive too, and still is in some respects, such as being content in a job he likes that pays moderately well. Part of me wishes the apprenticeship had never been offered, and DS would have had more time to figure out what he wanted to do.

Consider organising some counselling with him- possibly available through his course/company. He needs to explore why he changes his mind according to who he’s been talking to, and how to work out what he actually wants.

I speak as someone who has lots of skills and talents but ends up doing whatever works well for other people as I’m insufficiently motivated and focussed to follow what I want. My mother was overbearing. Nothing was enough. I had no idea what ‘success’ looked like or what I wanted, apart from staying out of trouble from her. As in, I showed a friend my o level results when we picked them up and asked her if she thought they were ok. I had no idea.

What did you need your mum to say/do or not say/do? I'm wondering now if I'm part of the problem and unintentionally worsening the situation 😞

You say perfect he says it’s not, sounds like he isn’t doing as well as you think and they are thinking of getting rid of him so told you he wants out.

I don’t think you are like her. I wanted her to listen to me, be interested in me, and not just what I could achieve and how things would look. It would have been nice if she’d asked how I thought I was doing, was I pleased with my result. Instead from when I was really young she piled on the pressure, I should be better, I should be top of the class, I should, I should. If I didn’t do well I wasn’t comforted or helped to work out why, I was just told off. Sometimes it would be the examiner/teacher fault, other times I hadn’t tried hard enough.

His current path is really efficient, and will lead to lots more choices and actually being paid- which is great! Maybe you could help him plan a holiday, or a hobby which he can do because he can afford it.

DS did an accountancy apprenticeship. So different from your lad. But now he’s through it, he’s in such a strong position. Well paid, was paid while he studied so only got the tuition fee debt.

He didn’t stay with the company he started with, he’s moved on for a better opportunity. He has choices.

I dropped out of university at his age. I worked in what was initially a minimum wage level job in retail, then got promoted. I did that for a year, and then reapplied to a different university and got a first class degree. While I was working my parents charged me a small amount for rent which - entirely to my surprise - they just banked and then gave it all back to me when I restarted uni.

What the year working in a minimum wage retail job gave me was a) a strong sense of not wanting to do it forever, b) some really useful transferable skills, and c) a shit load more confidence than I’d had before, which was very valuable to me when I started university again.

FWIW, I don’t think it’s necessarily realistic to have a career plan at 18. It takes a while for a lot of adults to find their niche and sometimes that means trying out a few things first. I didn’t have a career plan when I graduated either. I just applied for random stuff I thought I was capable of and thus drifted into comms and PR. That wasn’t what I’d ever imagined myself doing.

So, I would let him at this stage make his own choices. His life isn’t over because he’s dropping out at 18.

I don't think so. His end of term 1 results were top of 2:1 banding, and his regular meetings with his work mentor and uni tutor all sound positive, only thing that could be viewed as negative is that his work mentor says he's quiet. He joins in with out of work activities, and has made some friends in his class.

That sounds really hard, I'm sorry that happened. My dad was very controlling and I have tried to be very different with my kids, but it's always been a worry that it's rubbed off on me somehow.

He's already planning a holiday with friends and does some hobbies which he pays for. That's why I don't think he means it when he says he doesn't care about money! I'm glad it all worked out for your DS.

A good reminder, thank you.