Letting them make big decisions and accepting their choices

[BeRedHedgehog]

I'm really struggling today with my DS18, who is doing a degree apprenticeship (since last September). He has told me he wants to quit as he doesn't feel motivated to do the work or the study. He wants to get a minimum wage job and claims not to care about money, or if he ends up homeless. He is not great with communication and struggles to 'put on a face', which I worry will mean he won't be able to get another job. His current job is perfect, and he is good at it. It should lead to permanent, well paid work once his degree is finished.
I know he's an adult and I should let him make his own decisions, but I'm struggling with how. I've told him I love him, and that he could never disappoint me, but I've also explained my concerns about not getting another job and the lack of motivation he is likely to have working in McDonald's (for example), which is the reason he's citing to quit the apprenticeship.
Any advice on how to handle this??

He doesn’t care if he ends up homeless? That’s a really odd thing to say.

What happens if he quits? Is he living with you, contributing?

You can love someone but they can still disappoint you.

talk with him about sticking to something even if it is hard. Ask him exactly what is hard and help him process it.

I think you need to talk to him further about why he is struggling with motivation and what could help that. It seems this might be a bit bigger than can't be bothered to study.

You tell him, no. That he lives at home and has a career plan that he will stick with until he gets a better one. Staying gives him options. Leaving shuts down options.
If he wants to leave, he needs to apply for better jobs with prospects so he can feed and house himself when you stop doing it for him.

I’d say as an adult it’s his decision where he works, but not whether he works. If he’s still living at home then he needs to line up another job before he quits this one, so he can keep contributing. The jobs market is really tough out there so it might take him a while to find something else. In the meantime he might realise he’s actually better off staying where he is.

I called him out on saying the homeless thing, but he stands by it - from a privileged position of always living in a dual income household with all his needs met 🙄
He lives at home and contributes £200/month which mainly covers petrol to get to work.

I think he finds the social communication difficult (diagnosed social anxiety and refused ASD assessment), and I worry he is giving up rather than facing his difficulties. The thing is though, that where he works is perfect for him as there is no pressure to be sociable (mostly individual projects), no customer facing elements and he's good at the job he does (tech based), and he won't likely find that in another job, especially minimum wage.
He won't agree that's the issue though.

Your petrol or his?

I’m all for letting young people learn from their mistakes but in the current job market with so many people (especially the young) struggling to find work I would be disappointed that he doesn’t realise how lucky he is to have an apprenticeship. My DS is in the first year of an apprenticeship & doing well, enjoying it etc. but he has 3 more years to go & I really hope he sticks it out & completes the course because he would have a pretty secure career ahead of him. Having said that when they get to a certain age there’s only so much you can do.

I did say he should start looking to see what's on offer locally, and that the jobs market is competitive, especially for the non skilled jobs, and that for those jobs you have to come across well at interview to sell yourself - which he struggles with massively.

Well, you can calculate how much it costs to keep him at your house, charge him that amount and then ask him how he will afford to pay it out of a minimum wage job.
And, if he does get said job, then you absolutely follow through and charge him (even if you secretly keep the money on his behalf).
As an adult, of course he can make his own choices, but he also needs to understand the consequences.

He uses my car and I put the petrol in it. Sometimes, I take him and pick him up if I need the car. I work from home so makes sense to share.

I didn't realise that degree apprenticeships have a higher drop out rate than a lot of university degrees. It's tough to go straight into full time work and degree level study. DS is capable and is also seeing friends at least weekly, if not more, so I thought he had the balance right. Then he tells me he wants to quit.

Just to add - degree apprenticeships are seen as the perfect answer, but no one seems to talk about the effects of working full time and doing an almost full time degree at the same time. I know my DD struggled at times, and there were occasions when she would happily have given it up for a stress free minimum wage job. Are you sure he’s not embarrassed to say he’s struggling?

Agree, I hadn't really considered the drop out rates. He claims he's not struggling, just not motivated to do the work (although feedback from work and uni has been good so far).

So he doesn’t actually need to cover his own housing, food or travel costs?

I’d be charging him a proportion of the household costs, and not saving it for him or giving him it back in kind. If he wants to be an adult, adults have bills and responsibilities and they work to meet those. You may find having a stable job that leads to a career becomes more of a focus when mum and dad aren’t picking up the tab. He uses your car, he puts petrol in it.

I didn’t realise that either to be honest. And you’re right it must be tough. My DS is doing a trade apprenticeship at college so a very different thing by the sound of it.
It’s just so difficult thinking that they might make a decision they go on to regret & it’s not easy to reverse. I see so many people on here saying that their DC are struggling to find any work. You have my sympathy, it must be a worry.

There’s not much point in persuading him to do something that he doesn’t want to do. The job market is difficult, even for unqualified jobs.

He needs a bit of a reality check. If he were mine I would tell him to get a full time job before he leaves the course. Then, he can get public transport to it, because that’s what people do who work minimum wage jobs. I live close to an Amazon warehouse. Nobody is going there in their mammy’s car.

I’d also tell him that as this is it, he’s not going to be making more money than he is now, he needs to start researching for accommodation costs with a view to moving out in say a year when he’s got some savings.

That's what worries me most - if he quits and that is the sliding door moment his life goes downhill. But I also don't want to talk him into staying if he truly isn't happy. I feel like I'm not making good parenting decisions now he's an adult, and that I'm always saying the wrong thing.

I tried that and that's when he said the nonsense about not caring about money or being homeless 😞

He’s talking bs because right now he can’t even conceive a reality that isn’t coddled. As soon as he is anywhere near uncomfortable (let alone homeless) he’ll find his motivation quickly enough.

I agree with a PP, I’d charge him a standard rate and “force” him to truly live out of a minimum wage and then he’ll see what it is like.

I 100%, absolutely disagree with the idea that a minimum job will automatically be less stressful. Working in hospitality isn’t for everyone, and many other MW jobs can be incredibly stressful and taxing on your health. He just needs a reality check.

He can do what he wants. But he can't pay a peppercorn rent, live off your groceries or use your car.
If he wants to be homeless, then by all means let him move out and be homeless/ take the bus/ earn minimum wage. Or pay market rent.

He's bluffing. Call his bluff.

OP, it’s a bit of a catch-all for your son to say he’s “unmotivated”. There will be some aspect that’s bothering him. When my DD wanted to drop out of uni, I persuaded her to go back until she’d done the first assignment of that term - and after a couple of weeks, things did improve, and she did stay and ended up getting a first. I think sometimes they can’t see the wood for the trees. Yes, this probably is the hardest part of his working life, having to do work and study - but he needs to understand that the end goal is worth it. Contrast the daily boredom of a minimum wage job with doing something that your DS is good at, and probably enjoys. The very fact of persisting with an apprenticeship shows a certain grit that is appreciated by employers. So, first of all, give him a manageable goal - eg just stay until Easter and we’ll think about it again. Then sit down with him and find out exactly what is the problem - is there coursework he’s falling behind with? Does he have a problem with one of the tutors? Are they asking him to do things he doesn’t understand? Has he fallen out with someone else on the course? You can’t address the problem until you know what it is - but do emphasise that his working life is likely to be at least 45 years, and flipping burgers for that long can be a bit soul destroying. Also, most minimum wage jobs tend to be more rather than less social - if he likes working on his own, a minimum wage job is not the one.

So he’s not actually contributing to living at home if he’s using your car and paying for the petrol. He’d have to pay for a train or bus if he didn’t have this.
Let him know he needs to start paying rent and a contribution to food etc. in order to remain at home and tell him the figure.

It's incredibly difficult to watch a child making a big mistake. This is one reason I strongly disagree with leaving them to it when they are on course for failing GCSEs or A levels.
I can see the appeal of degree apprenticeships from a financial pov and if it's a career they always wanted, but the drawback is making a career decision at 18 rather than at 21 with a degree in the bag. What made him choose it? Did he consider uni or any other course?
He's less than a year into it so if he quit now and got a nmw job he could potentially still go to uni in September. However he might struggle to get another apprenticeship if he's given one up.
I would insist that he carries on until he has a job to go to. Searching for work is soul destroying and the job market for 18 year olds is tough. That might be an eye opener.
I would also get him to arrange to speak to his line manager or supervisor about his boredom. Maybe he's not being pushed hard enough.