My DD (age 20) has no idea what she’s doing and neither do I.

[Cheesecake5]

Long. But context is necessary.

DD got a good set of GCSEs 10x grades 9-5 in all the usual subjects.
She initially wanted to be a nurse, then decided she wanted to be a physiotherapist, then changed her mind on GCSE results day saying she didn’t want to do that and wanted to be a social worker and ended up taking Biology, Psychology, RE and Politics A levels. She then decided she didn’t like biology and dropped it. Thankfully school insisted on doing the AS version so she did and got a C. In Y13 she decided she didn’t want to be a social worker but didn’t know what to do and applied to universities to do sociology and politics. She also applied to do many other non related things via apprenticeships and had several interviews. She didn’t get any apprenticeship offers but was offered places at Glasgow, Liverpool, Sheffield and Newcastle universities. She firmed Liverpool and needed BBB. On results day she got ABC. Liverpool still accepted her but she decided she wasn’t sure whether she wanted to go and asked to defer, they said yes. Then she decides to enrol herself on a BTEC Level 3 engineering at the local college. At this point, part of me was very confused but just thought, ok, she still has the uni place and maybe this is just something she needs to explore. The year passes and she decides to decline the uni place and stay on the BTEC because she’s decided she wants to be an engineer. She decided she wasn’t going to apply to university she was going to apply for degree apprenticeships. She didn’t get offered any. She finished her BTEC with D* D* D*. Fantastic. Now she’s volunteering at a charity shop, and in the last few months has wanted to be a doctor, a physicist, a medical engineer, a teacher and musician. She is trying to find a job but has had no luck other than KFC and is working towards grade 8 piano.

If you got to the end of this, thank you. I just don’t know what to do with her or how to advise her. Any thoughts would be welcome.

Does she have ADHD?

She sounds quite a lot like my DD who is also 20 and who does have ADHD. She changes her mind every five minutes about what she’s going to do 😬 A Levels were a real struggle for her, even though she had the capability. She just couldn’t study. At all. That’s when it became very clear she had ADHD. Since A Levels we have just given her time and space to adjust to adulthood! She is talking about doing an OT degree next year and I think this would be a great fit for her, but we know there is every chance she’ll change her mind before then so we wait and see 😂

To add- she has been working since A levels, almost full time, and she pays a bit of rent as well as paying for her phone, car etc. There’s nothing wrong with her work ethic, but studying and making plans is incredibly difficult for her.

I was going to say ADHD too. I have it. My cv is very varied. I’ve forged a good career but despite being academically bright my 20s were a bin fire. I still want to retrain in all sorts though I don’t let myself actually sign up for anything now. My advice is for her to study any course she can get through then work out what to do with it afterwards. She sounds bright. Goal number 1 is get qualified in anything that will get her a better job than KFC.

I suppose she has to pick one and stick with it. Lots of young people (and old) don’t know what they want to do. I became a teacher having never wanted to be one when I was young and I have had a fantastic career and couldn’t have imagined doing anything else.

I do think uni and a career would be best for her and she should apply for courses for next September. What she doesn’t want to do is waste time doing any old job while she is meanwhile getting older and doesn’t end up doing a degree at all.

This sounds like my son who is a similar age. I’m honestly at my wits end with him. I set up a lovely internship for him - he took his girlfriend to the initial meeting and when they didn’t want to ‘look at her artwork’ he declined the paid internship. Really stupid as it was a massive opportunity.

He went to Uni and then dropped out after a year (after a year of his girlfriend ‘living’ in his dorm (she dropped out of college / has never worked) and now has a dead end job in a really shit field. He doesn’t drive despite being given thousands towards a car / driving lessons.

Very woke (fine, we are a love everybody type of a family) but to the point where there is nothing left that isn’t an issue. I actively avoid spending time with them both now as it’s all so negative.

I do find (he was never like this before) that many of his peers are the same angry, entitled and a little bit helpless. F*cking excruciating to watch as I’m from an era where we had to work hard and get on with it and if we had had those same opportunities we would have been so grateful.

Sorry I realise I went off on a tangent there. ♥️

I think she should carry on in the world of work, even if it's KFC, so she gets some life experience and maturity. And a better idea of what some of her multiple dream jobs involve and that they can be hard work and often boring and unpleasant.

If and when she eventually decides to go to university then it will be for something where she has a real idea of what the subject involves and what the potential job at the end involves.

This was lots and lots of the people I knew growing up. The lucky few knew what they wanted to do and did it. The rest of us bounced about. The only thing we knew was that we needed to earn. And preferably earn enough to make going to uni worth it.

All I knew was that I didn't want an office job( had no idea what an office job actually looked like); didn't want to work weekends; didn't want to have to do any work in the evenings; couldn't be bored. Knew i didn't want a caring job. Ideally, I'd have liked to have fronted a band.

I became a teacher, but only planned on doing it for a short while. 24+ years isn't actually that short though. Because ib still couldn't work out what i wanted to actually do. And in lots of ways, it suits my personality. I struggled massively with organisation in my first couple of years, but compensated by becoming the most organised. To the point where people would point me out as the go-to. I hated the period of teaching where we were supposed to be the 'guide at the side'. Fuck no. I'm the front woman of a 30 piece band!

Maybe she should try local pharmacies? Counter assistants and dispensary assistants do mandatory courses. It may give her a feel to see if a medical route is where she wants to do.

Get her some good careers guidance. No job will tick all her boxes so she needs to determine what place in her life all her interests hold.
What impact does she want to have? On who?

It’s sometimes overwhelming to think she needs to make a decision which fits her whole life. She doesn’t have to- she just needs to trust in herself that she will adapt to her evolving skills and interests.

By the way- has she looked at Level 4or 5 apprenticeships?

I'd leave her be. She'll find her way, and possibly not something she has ever considered at all. She doesn't have to go to university or to college, or study something she thinks she needs for a career she thinks she might like, only to find out that she's not keen on it after all. That will just demoralise her.

What she needs is to go out into the workplace and earn some money. That is an end in itself and give her a sense of achievement. One day, something will happen to change her path and an opportunity will present itself.

Make sure she knows you are proud of her just for being her, and you love her to bits no matter what.

Speaking from experience here, both from my own wayward career path and for DD, whose first career choice ended in disaster (not of her own making), and is now embarking on a career none of us expected, and which she's fallen into by chance.

Wow. My heads spinning. ADHD central!

This isn't much help in getting DD to make a choice, but my DD just started at Liverpool. She could have chosen higher ranked unis (A levels in physics, chemistry and maths all grade A) but fell in love with the city. She is (so far) pleased she chose it.

DD is the same. Decided on a gap year post A levels, rather than uni (because she wanted to go, but didn't actually want to study anything...) now on her second gap year and still undecided about uni. She's working full time but the job is not a financially secure long term option. However, she's happy, loves her job and bounces to work every day so we are seeing how it goes for now.

Well, at least she is keeping herself busy rathet than sitting around doing nothing!

How about training to be an OT? She has the right A-levels. There are loads of different areas she could specialise in which might appeals to her various interests eg she could be a music therapist, or get involved with the with equipment side of things would be closer to the medical engineerig bit, rehab similar to her physio interest etc

Roll it back and widen the lens from career - how does she feel about herself, about adulthood? How is she with low key decisions or responsibilities? At sticking with something? Is she feeling too much pressure or too little guidance? What is her skill set (academics, communication, caring, people skills, making things, writing essays and reports)? What is she doing when she feels most 'her', what makes her heart sing? Is she modeling herself on others pathways, or expectations?

I am 50 and still like this, but I actually think it's okay as long as you're always doing something and paying your way.

It's not the route to riches but I've always been employed, and mostly in qualified and skilled roles.

My parents insisted I do a degree and despite claiming it didn't matter which degree they didn't try to hide their disappointment that I did an arts degree (when I got a first, back in 1995 when only three firsts were awarded in a cohort of just under 200 who completed the degree, they said "oh well at least that's something"). I've wondered on and off whether it is worth doing a "random" non vocatioal degree, but actually it has opened lots of doors - I did the JET (Japanese exchange and teaching) programme after graduating, which is only for graduates. I then did a non graduate office job, but got the job because my first made my CV stand out and I was invited to interview just out of curiosity, according to my then boss. Although my role didn't require a degree, my employer then funded a masters (in a different subject entirely, one actually related to the job) which I did whilst working full time in a 50+ hours per week role a few years later.

I pivoted again when I got bored and restless in the office based role, and retrained as a teacher and did that for eight years before getting restless and unhappy with that (mainly with the politics and constant changes of direction; the cognitive dissonance required for the 1984 style unspoken taboo about mentioning or acknowledging that we were being told to do directly the opposite of what had been absolutely essential the year before, or even worse to do two totally contradictory things simultaneously, was beyond me).

I ran my own business after the birth of my second child, and then once my third child started school retrained yet again into an allied health profession via a part time degree apprenticeship, and now I'm doing another part time masters whilst working full time (again...)

Since my traditional undergraduate degree I've always worked full-time whilst studying or retraining and funded myself. I've taken one short career break when my older two children were both tiny and not in childcare, but I think that's unconnected! Otherwise I've always worked, and mostly full time.

I've got adult children of my own, and the older two both did degree apprenticeships - the world has changed a little and it's harder to walk into a job with a non vocatioal degree - but neither are wedded to staying in exactly the firld they're in and the eldest has further study lined up (alongside his current job) for a tangential change of direction, whilst the second often plays around with the idea of a complete change of direction. The youngest is doing his A levels and intending to do a traditional psychology degree, which is fine but he's also changed his mind a lot.

Honestly I think it's fine, some people are restless and need change to be fulfilled. It certainly keeps me mentally young to still be thinking of and planning for the next thing - I'd hate to be slowing down and feeling as though I was winding down with nothing exciting to look forward to beyond things characteristic of being elderly (grandchildren, pottering, looking forward to an end phase of being unproductive) at 50, which some of my contemporaries are already doing!

I would say your daughter should do a degree or apprenticeship which leads to a skilled job and see it through even if it's not what she wants to do forever. It's better to have a qualification which you can use to work in a job which will be enough to live independently on and as a springboard to new adventures in the future.

You can spring in lots of directions all your life, but it's easier to do so in a self supported way with a degree level baseline to spring from (plus masters degrees are quicker...😂).

So I think, in the end, my parents were right to insist I do a degree, though these days a degree apprenticeship is even better to avoid debt.

At least she hasn’t got years of student loans to pay off like my DD who will prob never use her degree and is currently working in retail!
It’s gutting cos she did so well in GCSEs and A levels (all 7-9s and all As) so very clever, but weirdly she’s focused on something I think she has some aptitude for, but is no way good enough to make it a career (only the very talented do). She got a good degree because she worked very hard and did well in the theory side.
Never wanted to work in an office either.
I don’t think it’s just an ADHD thing. I know ND grads who have secured great jobs post uni.

I don’t think she should do any old job just to earn money. That’s ok for a year or two but then she needs more focus and direction. Looking back at my old school friends, the ones who have not been happy with their work were under challenged and stayed put in a low level job. The happiest is a medical doctor!

Really, when I go to uni reunions the doctors are all banded together talking about burnout, how miserable they are and when they can get their pensions.

They stayed put in one unfulfilling job - that's not a risk here by the sound of it.

Medical doctors don't stay put in one role until they reach consultant level (or other specialism) and job satisfaction depends a lot on specialisation and personality. Most medical doctors experience huge variety in the first fifteen years plus of their working lives and do the opposite of staying put.

Variety is the spice of life 😝

Sometimes I think children from non immigrant comfortable backgrounds need to be asked what lifestyle they’d like in the future when not supported by the parental pound!

I suggest that if prepared to do it the parents share their income and a complete breakdown of living expenses hopefully including savings and pension contributions. That tells the child what is needed to maintain their current standard of living.

They should google average salaries in different professions and decide what’s important to them. In most cases good income means hard work and long hours.

having to pay her own way might focus her. Giver her a six month deadline to find a job and find her own place to live. Time to launch.

I'm confused. Where in the OP does it say that they are not immigrants and are comfortably off?

I clicked on this, read it, then had to check the date to ensure it wasn’t a zombie thread. 🤣 Honestly, I was convinced at one point that maybe my own mother had written this about me and changed a couple of details for anonymity purposes. Anyways, it wasn’t. But really, you have just described me. I have ADHD btw. It wasn’t diagnosed for a very long time. I was certainly working when it was as the university picked up on it.

My story. Very similar to how you described. GCSEs, A levels which I then changed half way through and ended up with the strangest combination. All essay and social science based. Applied for uni, offers from RG unis but didn’t go despite having got the grades. I also deferred, didn’t have a clue what I was doing, spent a year doing nothing and everything then decided I wasn’t going to uni so turned down the place. For 18-20 months after leaving school I did all sorts - worked in tescos, got bored of that, then tried next, got bored with that, did nothing for a few months, then tried volunteering at a community centre, got bored of that, then tried gardening, then a few other things. I got myself on a course to be a rugby referee and then got injured so couldn’t do anything and then didn’t follow it through afterwards when I got better, then I got myself on a training course to drive busses and got my bus license, and then I didn’t want to do that. My parents were sick of me.

It really helped when I was told - you need to think about what you are going to do because you need to start paying your way. If not, I’ll take you down the council and they can help you start your life on the dole. I really didn’t want to be on the dole.

I applied for loads of apprenticeships and jobs. I was offered a Level 3 E&I apprenticeship. I took it. I was back in education and entertained. I enjoyed it because of the variety. In the 2nd year I almost gave up and quit. I was getting bored again. But I stuck at it because I knew I’d I didn’t I would end up on the dole, plus I’d seen the opportunities other had that I was working with because they were qualified, and once I’d finished my Level 3 BTEC was offered the chance to do a Foundation Degree in engineering. I thought I would try it so stuck with the apprenticeship. I did finish that apprenticeship and qualified, but I was bored of E&I so moved internally in the company to look at electronics which I enjoyed. I finished my FdEng and was getting bored again. Moved to another company doing medical engineering. Got funded through my top-up degree in engineering at the same uni where I did my FdEng. That’s when my ADHD got picked up and diagnosed because I got bored of that company and moved to a new one while I was doing my top-up. I learned after all of this I was chasing variety and a challenge so I started looking into innovation and jobs with R&D. I found one, applied for it and I have never had 2 days the same. Yes, it gets boring at times and I get the urge to leave but I’ve found an employer that understands ADHD and is happy to give me slightly different work when I need it. I’m now a chartered engineer.

So I think. Find an apprenticeship, even if it’s a lower level e.g. 3/4/5 and chase the variety of having both work and education. Keep at it and complete it. Take the qualifications and then use them to apply to whatever the interests are. Look for a career where there is constant variety, where 2 days are never the same. She might have to work at getting to the point where she can do this with extra qualifications, but when she has those, jobs in R&D, innovation and constant variety and challenge become available. It’s a long hard slog though doing it the way I did.

Alternatively, just find something that has constant variety. She could have a look at something like the police or paramedics if she wants to work with people. Or journalism, but possibly a lot of desk based work. Or if she wants to use her engineering then find a company that does a lot of client work and projects (stay away from maintenance roles they have zero variety).

Edited to say: I would also start considering chasing an ADHD diagnosis. I know a lot of people disagree with labels, but it really helped me understand why I was the way I am and put suport in place to help me get though education and on the right path that worked for me.

This is all excellent advice. I loved reading about others experiences through life. It was reassuring to hear how people have switched directions several times and have survived adulthood to this point.

ADHD - This was never mentioned by school or college. But she did go to school which wasn’t the best, so perhaps it’s been missed. I did have a Google of ADHD and she so fits all of those traits. Perhaps she does have it?

Being proud of her - I am very proud of her, with everything that she does (well, most things). I am very happy that she’s not sitting around all day, and she is doing something. She is trying, but she has no idea where to target her efforts. I shall tell her more often that I am proud of her.

Widening the focus from careers to how she feels about adult life - this is good advice. Not sure how to approach this yet, but I certainly think this is something worth trying. Sometimes I haven’t a clue what is going on in her head or how she’s feeling. She’s very good at bottling things up, always gives the answer “I’m alright” or “I’m fine” when I can tell there is something not quite right, then it all comes out at once in a meltdown.

Pay her way / educate about finances in adult life - I like this. I can have that chat with her and show her the finances so she fully understands how much life costs and what she might need to be independent further down the line. I haven’t so far made her pay anything, this was because she was at college for the last 2 years, but I will consider, now that she does have her little KFC job, taking a little bit from her.

Student loans - Yes! I am very glad at this point in time that she doesn’t have any and that she hasn’t just gone to university and piled up the debt when there was no need to or piled it up, changed her mind and dropped out. I think in one way, she hasn’t been very sensible about declining university when not sure about it.

Leave her alone - I can understand this, to a point, but I fear leaving her along to get on with it will not be the best thing in the long run. Perhaps I will, to a point, leave her alone but encourage her to explore the career ideas she has in more depth for the next 6-12 months. Maybe guide her in the direction of volunteering in those areas to see what it’s like.

Apprenticeships - I do like the idea of her getting an apprenticeship, and it is something she has explored in the past. I think this will give her the variety of work and also education and will keep her busy and entertained. It will also give her something to fall back on if she wants to. I liked the suggestions to try for lower levelled apprenticeships at levels 3, 4, and 5. Perhaps we missed a trick by not considering those ones last time. I do like the suggestions to try lower levels though and work upwards.

Matching to personality etc - She’s a kind person. Will do anything for anyone. Interested in all sorts and wants to learn more. But can’t seem to concentrate on focussing on herself. She loves a challenge and seems to be able to start anything and have motivation, but finishing it is a completely different matter. Shes always chasing the next thing and can’t seem to settle on anything. She always seems to come back to playing the piano, even if she’s given up for a few months or longer, or learning more about science. So anything that combines music, people and science would probably be good as long as it has variety and she’s constantly learning. She’s very outgoing, will talk to anyone, constantly needs to be doing something but can be a very sensitive soul at times and get affected and upset by very little things. Trying to find something that fits all of that is going to be tricky. However, as it’s been mentioned, what she decides to do doesn’t have to be forever and she can use it as a base.