DS23. What do we do?

[Magpiemines]

Hi, I know a lot of this situation is of our own making, but let me start by saying that we have 3 DC and the other two are not like DS.
DS recently graduated and is applying for a job/ career with training and good prospects but earliest start date Jan/Feb. He wants to put his application on hold and try for the September next year instead, as he feels he hasn't got enough on his CV to be guaranteed a job offer, and to rectify this he wants to stay at home for the next year and do a Masters (says he'll get a part time job, but I don't believe this).
DH and I have told him we feel getting a job would be far more beneficial toas he has only a few weeks experience of working. He won't have it and is expecting us to allow him to continue living at home without paying us anything for another year (already had the past 5 years post 18 here). I wouldn't mind this so much if he actually contributed in other ways, but I have to constantly nag at him to do anything. He thinks that walking the dog is sufficient contribution!
I get home from work and he appears in the kitchen asking me when I'm making dinner!! As if he's 10! He doesn't help with meals, shopping, washing, cleaning, any housework at all. He thinks he should be able to watch what he wants on the TV even if no-one else wants to (he has his own TV but wants to sit downstairs).
Sometimes there's a slight improvement for a few days but then things just go back to how they were. He's ridiculously lazy. And he's not depressed.
It's making me feel ill when I think about having him here for another year not contributing and acting like a man child! Then I feel guilty when I think of the alternative because he's my DS!

You tell him the bank of mum and dad is closed. That it is time to get a job. Rent will be 20% of his take home pay. He has 4 weeks to get a job. He has to be working min 40 hours and out of the house during the day. In 12 months he needs to move out. He needs to start living!

A masters wont fix what ails him no one cares on job applications an MBA maybe but i would not encourage that!

I think you need a sit down and chat about being an adult and the expectations and contributions if he stays.

He cant just fart about for a year... he needs to be working even if its bars / supermarket/ manual labour whatever...our window cleaner set up his own business out of uni because he couldnt find a job.

He has to be working min 40 hours

That lets out quite a few potential jobs. I don’t think I’d set a minimum number of hours, but I’d definitely insist that he gets some sort of job (full time - not necessarily 40 hours - if not studying, part time if studying) and starts pulling his weight around the house.

A masters won’t fix his CV and he will find plenty of excuses not to get that part time job, as well as building up more debt. As a recruiter I’m afraid I would see it for what it was a delaying tactic to getting out in the world of work. He needs to get his application in for the role which starts Jan / Feb and then get himself something to fill the time between now and the end of the year - even if it’s working part time in the the supermarket to start with. He also needs to start contributing at home - financially - even if it is a token amount from part time work, getting on with chores to help out and behaving like an adult. He has a simple choice this or he can go out into the wide world now and find himself somewhere to live. Time for some tough love, he thinks he is an adult ( which he should be at 23 ) so treat him like one. The bank of Mum and Dad is now closed.

“Then I feel guilty when I think of the alternative because he's my DS!”

The alternative can be that you say you’re not supporting him for another year and he needs to work/contribute to the house financially/otherwise or move out. Everyone I know who did a masters worked alongside side it so he can do both if he wants to.

You just have to make it crystal clear that this extended childhood just ended. He needs to pay his way and contribute. His plans are quite clearly a further effort to postpone the dreaded world of work. You need to be firm, shape up or ship out. He's a man, you need to finish your work as parents by making him act like one. The alternative is that he'll still be hanging around in his 40s.

Tell him your not supporting him financially anymore.

What sort of jobs is he applying for? What degree did he do? I would it'd would be better for him to start the grad job in Jan/Feb and before that come home, do some part-time work and then he can move out for the job if needed. It does depend on the graduate role though, I know some graduate jobs where for progression after you need a masters and often they want you to have it before you apply as they only pay for a few people. So it does depend on industry and role for progression because some jobs it's more worth his while to do the masters and for others he wouldn't need to but may want to for enjoyment etc. In that case though I'd prolong it maybe take a sabbatical later and do a masters then.

Personally in my culture we very rarely charge our kids rent as adults, we just don't see the point and it's their home. However adult children definitely help out and do cooking, cleaning etc and other things in the house. I wouldn't charge my kids rent as adults, just my personal opinion, but would want him doing things in the house. I know you said he isn't depressed but maybe consider it or something else going on and either ask him to perhaps get medication or go to the GP as a last chance sort of thing. Then I'd be more strict on helping around the house etc and be realistic about job prospects v paying for a masters. Has he had a part-time job during university? If not was it due to laziness or a good reason.

He’s kicking the can down the road, either due to insecurity or because he’s happy living the sweet life (or both) but if you allow it to continue it won’t do him any favours. My DB did this til he was 25/26 (it’s a fairly common occurrence in my country because generally you can’t work and do uni together) and then had to learn the hard way when mum became sick and simply couldn’t sponsor this behaviour anymore. He’s very successful now but at first it was very difficult because everyone questioned his lack of work experience.

Tell him he needs to get a job even if he chooses to do his masters. Even a part-time job.

He’s slightly older than DD but I had/have similar issues with her. A rota has worked well for the most part, seeing her tasks written down seems to help. I’ve also recently started charging a very symbolic board, but it’s mostly to get her used to paying bills because she’s stingy to a point that is just worrying.

A job with prospects/good money isn't going to land in his lap - the job market is really difficult at the moment. Also it's August - has he even researched or applied for a Masters? He's not going anywhere...he needs a job, contribute and come up with a plan. You can help by providing a roof for the next 12 months..part if the plan needs to be a job with a wage sufficient to pay for a house share

Thanks for all the replies. He's already found a masters that he wants to do and it is relevant for his future career. A masters isn't needed, his first degree isn't either, but his first degree is helpful to have.
He has tried to apply for some jobs, but I've told him he needs to sign up with an agency or even sign on. He won't do either at the moment.
He's currently trying to "borrow" some money to go out, but I'm standing firm!
We had already told him that once he graduated we wouldn't be helping him out financially, as he's living at home.
Hopefully with no money he'll sort himself out sooner rather than later, but I know he'll start piling the emotional blackmail on!

This is too much on you. He should be working and cooking his own food.

What course did he do?

If the Master’s is relevant to his degree and will strengthen his CV, fair enough. But at 23, he’s no longer your financial responsibility, he’s a “proper” adult.

So, discuss with your DH what your expectations are of an adult living in your home and set them out to your DS. He can take or leave your offer.

DH, his siblings, and myself have post-graduate degrees and our parents weren’t involved at all, neither financially nor providing accommodation. I don’t think that adults should expect this from their parents, tbh.

What career does he want to go into? Like specifically? He needs to do some internships (hopefully he did these in uni) and he needs to make sure his applications are specific to each company he applies for. Doing a graduate scheme for 2 years and then maybe progressing for a year or 2 after the scheme (whether at the same or a different company) before going back to school for a masters could work. I understand loving academics and the study of a subject, I'd do lots of degrees if I could, but unless he wants to go into academica then he should postpone his masters.

Postgraduate degrees are very expensive, the government do give a loan but it's not like tuition loan and then a maintenance one. It's just one bulk loan and most people choose to use it to cover the tuition fees ans then work part-time and get help from parents sometimes or do graduate work, progress for years after and then save to do it. But it would need to be a fair agreement between you and DS.

He has tried to apply for some jobs, but I've told him he needs to sign up with an agency or even sign on. He won't do either at the moment.

Honestly I'd be very disappointed if he was my child... and like you. I'd be making it uncomfortable. why wont he look at unskilled jobs while looking for proper grad job? (i know the market is bad but there are jobs out there)

Def hold firm on him needing to find his own income.
I'd house him and feed him (no smoked salmon or wagyu steaks 😅) for a while but hed have his own cupboard with basic and be expectd to but luxuries and cook for himself... and def hold firm on no drinking / clothes / holiday money.

On the masters what specifically is he doing? Because I've worked across publishing, risk management, cyber security, marketing and media (its totally not needed for any of those) similarly in tech sector its fairly redundant in most roles even engineers.

If he is doing something like Comsci with AI to pivot into a high demand field like AI then it is prob worth it assuming the hiring craze continues...

if not, he is just acquiring more debt.

And why is he 23 with just an undergraduate? I was out and working before 22.

Why has it taken him 5 years to get a degree? Surely that's holding him back on his CV far more than lack of a masters? He's just spinning out the time before he needs to grow up and get a job isn't he?

If he wants cash he can sign on for uc. Work coaches will direct him to applying for jobs.
uni careers office should also help. His masters can wait until he’s got some work experience.

He had some issues when he first went to uni related to it being the Covid year.
He never settled at Uni, he's got some good mates who stayed at home and did apprenticeships so he was always coming back.
And you're right, the two year gap between A levels and starting Uni properly isn't good. Which is why I think that any kind of job would be better than a masters right now.

I don't want to go into the specifics of the exact career but if if you think armed forces you wouldn't be far off.

Please tell us you don't then go ahead and cook him dinner when you get in and he asks OP? Time to stop doing stuff for him. From now on let him cook for himself and do his own laundry too.

Just don’t let him borrow money from you. Stand firm and he will sort himself out when he realises he needs cash. Just don’t show any weakness because once you’ve given in once, it will become harder!

Groan... he has a 1st already...
If he wants to be an officer its not going to help him.

I'd do some research yourself on his specific circs yourself (Claude or chatgpt) and see for yourself. It might also help give you idea on what he CAN be doing to improve his chances

A masters is just not the silver bullet...

I'm guessing MOD perhaps if he's went to get a degree for it. Though you did say he didn't need the degree but if he wants to go straight into armed forces then I don't see the master or grad scheme. So I'm guessing maybe the Civil Service FS or something in a defence company. Those are competitive but that much and a degree and focused expertise could make him stand out well if he answers questions well at interview and shows the benefits of his further expertise. I'd encourage him to do that.

However, you cannot be unclear with him, you and DH need to decide what you want in terms of rules and financing him, then have a proper chat where you lay it all out. It's not fair for him to not know the proper expectations, so you need to do that, a proper meeting. He needs to know the consequences of not meeting the expectations essentially being kicked out. Be firm but fair, he may really have a love for studying and academia (not everything needs to always be useful for a job, knowledge on its own if useful) however it doesn't mean he needs to do that now, he can wait for a masters. Also be curious, ask him why he doesn't want to do a grad scheme first (he could be scared or nervous, or have things going on he hasn't mentioned), and be encouraging especially if he doesn't think he'll get in etc, sometimes people need others who believe in them to give them a push. I think that could help improve dynamics and have a clear plan for him (what jobs is he looking at, he needs to track application windows so he doesn't miss deadlines etc). I think that would be a fairer discussion point. Also is be the youngest? What do his siblings do? Did they go to university as well? Maybe his siblings could have a casual chat and encourage him.

He can also still get back in contact with his university careers department, many are willing to help even after you've left. They could give him ideas for internships, jobs, formatting CV, (or doing the application questions) and answering questions at interview and assesment days.

My brother did this, 4 years doing a degree cause he messed up a year, 1 year masters, 2 years for a PhD that he got kicked off at year 3 for substance abuse. Now at home with mummy no job and older than 30. Enabling won't help.

Doing a graduate scheme for 2 years and then maybe progressing for a year or 2 after the scheme (whether at the same or a different company) before going back to school for a masters could work.

@TheLivelyViper Yep, that’s what we did, in fact it was more like five years of working before most of us went back-except DH’s brother who did go straight on after undergrad, I suppose he used his loans to finance it. You still end up with debt but if it enables you to switch fields or progress your career, it can be worth it. It’s not worth it though if you’re just trying to avoid going into the workforce.