How are you helping your DC deal with the terrible job market?

[Holluschickie]

Posting here for some emotional support. Not practical tips. Are any of your DC suffering in the brutal job market?

Interview after interview and rejection after rejection? Mine are and it is very hard to keep good cheer and motivate them to keep applying.

AI is making it harder too on both sides (and I suppose in some ways easier too) - candidates can spew out very very many more applications quickly and employers receive loads and can sift looking for phrases in relation to the experience they need using technology.

Hi

Would it be possible for you to share the names of any recruitment companies you may know of?
Many thanks

Ds is struggling with getting time off for interviews - the sessions he is being offered are inflexible and often at short notice - his employer requires 2 weeks notice for holidays and he doesn't wfh. He's been given 4 days notice this week for an assessment centre. The interview times are so hard to meet. I hate giving him advice to lie but I can't see any other way around it.

This has been interesting reading. My DD has just started at uni and while she has a slightly vague idea of what she'd like to do (journalism/policy/research) she is very very mindful of the job market (she originally wanted to do animation but after research into what her career might look like switched to an academic degree). She has already got a deputy editorship on the uni newspaper, is class rep for her course and the volunteer coordinator for her college. She said some people, when asked why they wanted the role of class rep, answered 'for my CV', so these kids are not unaware.
She is also already applying for a summer internship. She knows as a first year chances are low but the experience of applying may be of value even if not successful. If successful her name will be attached to a piece of published research. She did a work experience month abroad earlier this year which tested her ability to think on her feet (it was through Turing and she didn't know what her job was until she arrived). She has done some volunteering with marginalised groups. All of interest to her but with the aim of fleshing out her CV.
When I went to uni in the 1980s I worked in unrelated summer jobs and didn't give a thought to building up a portfolio of relevant work! I did send out about 30 or so CVs on spec after graduating, and did manage to get a few interviews. Didn't occur to me to sign up with an agency (if one existed for my field). My uni was in another country so no help with career advice. Finally got a break through someone I knew who knew someone who knew someone - certainly my DD is finding nepotism is still rife - at uni anyway! I do remember my boss sifting through CVs only to toss them aside and ask 'does anyone know of anybody looking for a job'! (This was the then largest privately owned publishing house in the UK and an old colleague just got her DD a job there so still happens).
They know it's tough. I also have a son who did a vocational qualification instead of A levels but during Covid so no work experience available (the main way they got a paying job upon completion) and it was soul destroying. He's always worked since he was 16 but at 21 is on minimum wage at a job he enjoys but doesn't see as a career. He has done a lot of work for free in a more relevant field but 12 hours on top of a full time job was not sustainable. Plus it didn't lead to anything paid after six months of slog.
On top of the difficulty of getting that first job, many of my friends' kids, those on graduate training schemes, apprenticeships or just working minimum wage, none can afford to live out. One only if she lives with her boyfriend in a shared house. My generation on the other hand, none of my friends went home after uni, we all managed to afford to live in London (shared house or with a flatmate). Wages have not kept up.
My DD believes that after graduating she will likely do a masters, then move home (London). She is very concerned about debt. While being pragmatic is all well and good, it is sad that they feel the need to focus so immediately on their lives three/four years in to the future.
@lizzyBennet08 she has asked me to look into getting her an Irish passport to keep the option of working abroad open!

It sounds wise she is putting a lot of effort into building her CV whilst at university. In the 80s it was very tough (I graduated in 1982 with the worst unemployment then for fifty years, 3m out of work and I had to apply to 139 law firms and have 25 interviews before getting that first offer). 2008 credit crunch years were hard too.. mondaytosunday, the masters sounds a good idea. My son's friend who was staying here at the weekend got a dream TV job (starting at the bottom) only after a very specific masters including work experience. Another of their friends did a masters in cyber security and works in that field (I think two of their friends actually). Lawyers like my sons don't technically do a masters but they do at least one post grad year with law exams so that is similar and I suppose doctors like my sibling, dentists (another friend of my sons), accountants have more exams than just under graduate. May be it has always been like this - the better paid professional jobs are not just a first degree.

Good luck to everyone applying. I think we are fairly stable now in that my youngest 2 are in permanent jobs so that worst initial bit is over, but you never know and have to be adaptable. I was not kept on after my 2 years training contract in a law firm (although I went to a better firm). Then I was not made a partner so had to set up on my own during the terrible 1990s crash when we also sold our last house at a loss in the property crash. We probably all just have to have the skills and resilience to do different things given the things life throws at most of us over a 40 or 50 year career.

@Good2Goooooo sorry I don't know any. DD2 googled jobs related to her Masters projects.

She completed her first week of "proper work" last week, work in the lab rather than training, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Her shift pattern is 4 days on, 3 days off, 10 hours per day, one week working 6am - 4pm, the next doing noon - 10pm. She had a big argument with British Gas who have a contract to sort out heating/boiler issues in her flat, which the LL pays for. Contractors lied and misled her and she was in tears about it to me. However, after a quick pep talk, she picked herself up and the heating is now fixed.

This is an interesting thread and @Xenia makes some important points. Another reason for the competition may be found at the other end of our working lives. In the very recent past, many professional careers attracted a pension from age 6o, but now final salary schemes are a thing of the past for most. Add to that the change in the state pension age, in some cases from 60 to 67. Of course, not everyone will work until they are 67, but many will be economically active for longer and if they remain in their professional role (and why wouldn’t they if they want / need to work?) then the progression of the following cohorts could be impacted.

The only person I know who already has a place on a plum graduate scheme for 25 is an international student who has the right to work in the UK through their parent’s second marriage. High attaining at day / boarding school abroad, bilingual, choice of university places / courses in different countries, gained financial support at university linked to prior attainment, and gained sought after summer internships, which led to the graduate scheme. Hard working, very motivated by money and very high expectations from their parent in a way many of us might find quite harsh.

The Information Commissioner has issued some recommendations for use of AI in recruitment and has a webinar on 22nd Jan 2025 on it for recruiters and IT people - https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/media-centre/news-and-blogs/2024/11/ico-intervention-into-ai-recruitment-tools-leads-to-better-data-protection-for-job-seekers/

https://ico.org.uk/media/about-the-ico/documents/4031620/ai-in-recruitment-outcomes-report.pdf

Interesting reports. I see some are using AI to predict candidates interest. Maybe thats my DDs problem.

DD thinks she can tell if feedback AI generated as its brutal and too wordy.

Some subjects give bursaries for PGCEs. My husband had £25k to teach Maths.

I didnt want to come back to this thread until I could report some success. And now I can! DD has got a job at last. Not very well paid, but in her field and she can live at home. Plus potential to learn a lot. 4 rounds of tasks and interviews; so stressful and long drawn out.

If we could do things differently, I would have encouraged both my DD and DS to focus less on grades and more on practical experience, learning software like Excel and Stata via Coursera or Udemy, and numeracy. DD's data skills need work for sure.

DD got this job because she did somw thorough research on her employer learning everything about them..In fact she was asked if she had been coached.
Now hoping DS gets an internship. He has applied for over 50 in the financial sector but its so competitive.

As an employer, do any of these young people have jobs? Any job, in a pub or a restaurant or anywhere? I ask because recruiting people, irrespective of their academic qualifications, who have never actually worked is a nightmare. In fact those with top grades from excellent universities but no actual employment experience are the worst. They have no idea what is expected in the workplace or how to behave but seem to think their qualifications make them senior and unfortunately at times “superior” from the start.
Any job that allows them to give actual real life experiences (like a pp said - a member of staff stealing) is a massive benefit. And yes, research the employer and if possible, the interviewer. It shows interest and initiative. And be enthusiastic! I cannot tell you how many young people I interview, most of whom have excellent academic qualifications, who come across as entirely disinterested. It wastes my time and theirs.

Congrats to your daughter. Her experience bears out a lot of what many were saying here about how to become marketable in the job market! Well done her. Hopefully this thread will help many others. Thanks for updating us.

@Holluschickie well done to your DD. I will pass on your advice about company knowledge for interview.

@Onetimeonly2024 my DD has worked alongside studying since last year at school (term time and holidays) - hospitality, barista, residence assistant, sports coach plus various one off things like election, TV extra ). Plus has done 3 internships and a placement year. I agree work experience useful however for the two schemes she is thru to final assessment centres she hasn't even had to submit a CV yet so no way can they differentiate between her and someone who has done nothing but still performed well at the previous stages of online tests. Hopefully her work experience will show thru at interview.

@Onetimeonly2024 DS has worked as a sports coach, a lifeguard and in a bar. Interestingly, the first real person interview he has lined up followed the old style letter and CV application process. Possibly gives weight to @PearlStork theory that AI processes do not put weight on work experience? He has no interviews yet following AI situational assessments etc.

@Holluschickie Massive congratulations to your DD and good luck to your DS! I think pay is less relevant in the first job as long as it's a good stepping stone and a good job/team/culture/learning potential. 2-3 years down the road she will be in completely different position. Thank you for coming back and updating. The market does not seem to be getting any easier so well done her (and you - it's not easy to be strong for them on this journey).

Thanks everyone! Good luck to all going through this gruelling process.

It's really difficult at the moment and only going to get worse in near future.

Unfortunately Labour screwed job market really badly, first with pre-budget rhetoric and then with NMW and NI and entry level jobs are the most affected.

What we're seeing now is halt of recruitment, but the next stage will be mass redundancies. It's going to hurt 😥

What we're seeing now is halt of recruitment, but the next stage will be mass redundancies. It's going to hurt

This^ I've just come out of a Zoom where small businesses were sharing the likely impact and it was many tens of thousands of £ for each one, and then add increased fuel costs and redundancies are inevitable. Restaurants, nurseries etc don't make enough profit to absorb the rises so for some it will not just be redundancies but closure. Nurseries can't just cut staff because of the child to adult ratios.

You're right that they won't take interview technique advice from parents, but you could find a few good links on you-tube and just say: watch these and see if you like any of the techniques.

Also, I really don't approve of working for free but there are still unpaid internships out there and when one of my DC did one for over a year, part time, I pretended I thought it was great and didn't judge the employer too much (but checked he was actually learning good skills, not just getting coffees and photocopying) It led to him getting his first job in a related area.

What we're seeing now is halt of recruitment, but the next stage will be mass redundancies. It's going to hurt
Several of my DS friends have been made redundant recently. They are now supporting each other. Somehow his boring CS job does not seem so terrible.

Congratulations on the job offer. It just shows persistence pays.

Much higher employer NI, lower level at which it starts and increase minimum wage to about £23,800 with knock on effects all over the place is not going to help those looking for work.

Although working for nothing for a long time is a bad idea, I do think even some voluntary work is good. Eg in years 2 and 3 of my law degree I volunteered at the legal advice centre connected to my university. I also worked for pay (although it was not much) for a children's holiday in every summer from age 17 to 21 for at least 2 weeks, sometimes 4 and did 2 weeks for no pay at a law firm in my home city - not a firm where I would want to work but still useful experience.

One of my lawyer sons who qualified this year did uite a bit of voluntary things including legal for a charity and also a scheme arranged by his law school - just a helpline thing which was only occasional and then did 3 months (paid) as paralegal across the whole summer between his 2 law courses when he might instead have put his feet up. His brother did some work one summer in the hotel sector including some cleaning. Most students have some kind of work experience however so none of this is anything special (and law vacation schemes of about 2 weeks are paid at about £450 a week in part to ensure those who are less well off are able to take part as well as those who are better off). Some sectors seem to have more unpaid internships than others - the law on this needs to be checked too eg you can be a shadowing student and not be paid but if you are doing work I think you must get minimum wage relevant to your age group.

DD got some advice from behavioural scientist that they might use a benchmark question as a baseline for assessing subsequent enthusiasm for more important questions so make sure you don't answer too enthusiastically.

Seems to have worked as she got an offer from the Assessment Centre she attended last week (they had previously gave negative feedback about her enthusiasm at earlier stages).

She also timed out one of her applications. Mixed it up with another which was allowing 7 days for response and this one was 5 days (plus applied on a Thursday). Luckily it wasn't a favourite but annoying even though.

I do wonder at some of their so called selection procedures, the first stage questions are poor and so many repetitive multiple choice questions. Plus all this questions "to see if your ethos fits in with ours".
I know people who interview graduate schemes at final stages and some can't string a sentence together despite sailing through the tests and are armed with a first.
They might as well put names in a hat and draw out ten to employ (subject to final checks) like the new doctors do - would save a lot of time and heartache for everyone involved.
And why not tell people earlier rather than keep them hanging on - why treat people like shit just because you can.

So we have AI recruiters and the candidates using AI to beat the system - what is the point