How are you helping your DC deal with the terrible job market?

[Holluschickie]

Posting here for some emotional support. Not practical tips. Are any of your DC suffering in the brutal job market?

Interview after interview and rejection after rejection? Mine are and it is very hard to keep good cheer and motivate them to keep applying.

I am civil service and we appoint a lot of young people with masters and PhDs into relatively junior roles and then they get rapidly promoted. But you aren’t going to get the massive Goldman Sachs salaries in the CS.

@Meadowfinch, this is interesting. Mine would kill for something like this. However, what seems to be the case with smaller firms entry level positions is that they all ask for previous experience. DC looked at quite a few marketing roles and they all asked for existing marketing experience with SEO, digital, social media platforms etc. Often, they also want a marketing degree. So my DC don’t even apply. I think my DC would be very suitable for marketing and have the right attributes of quants/strategic thinking and understanding people, but no existing experience whatsoever. They seem to have landed some marketing shadowing for Christmas break but that’s it. The attraction of graduate schemes is that majority of them do not require (at least on paper) a particular degree or any experience. But I am with you that smaller firms may be the way to go - it’s just seems from their job specs that they want plug and play.

Otherwise, my DC do not seem to be super efficient - putting only one or two apps per week. Researching companies for hours. While application deadlines are closing. Between this and studying and dissertation prep there doesn’t seem to be a lot of time. I think the base case is becoming more and more a master’s program. That said, they are quite competitive too - with 15%, 30%, 60% admissions rates. So that’s not a given either. Sigh…

@AliceInWonderland24 Experience is less important, at least for the companies I work for, than good knowledge of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and basic tools like Canva and MailChimp, which can be accessed for free.

A thought, You could get your dc to do a 'e-mailshot' to friends and relatives, perhaps a Christmas card, using MailChimp, including a festive graphic they create themselves in PowerPoint or Canva. Then include that in their application. It shows their creative ability, initiative and understanding of how an email engine works.

Pm me if I can help.

My DD is in the same position re nationality and thinking about this. Can I ask please did your DD do her TEFL here and did she use an agency for the job - it's s bit of a mine field!

Startups/scaleups are notorious for empty promises, having worked for some as a software engineer. Oh and also for randomly going bust. I wouldn't consider 35K a great deal unless the advancement opportunities and salary increases were provided in writing. Of course, someone with no choice might take it, but the sort of go-getter you want probably has better options.

London is so expensive, I only left 5 years ago (just before COVID) but am surprised at how bad the situation has gotten. People are bidding on rent. So many places are badly maintained with no consequences as the situation is desperate. A friend spent 3 months in autumn with no hot water, another with mice , another with horrendous heating (the apartment was so old everything leaked out immediately)... And they're paying more than a grand for the privilege.

BTW I agree that grads should cast their net wider, but money doesn't go as far as it used to. People used to be happy to accept initial low pay on London, hoping to make it big. The pull has diminished somewhat.

If any of them like kids and want sometime to tie them over they should sign up to an agency to be a support TA in a school or nursery- they're all finding it so so so hard to recruit

Also, if in London, being a nanny or manny is a great gap year type job

AliceInWonderland24 asked who are the people getting the high paid most competitive graduate jobs. In my profession, law, you can very easily look that up - you just do a google search of "trainee solicitor linkedin" and then add name of big law firm and you can usually see who did what. let me experiment with Freshfields (a law firm) Durham languages after boarding school; next person another female, day private school, Oxford - another non law degree first before legal studies; next one yet another girl, state grammar, possibly contextual candidate, not Oxbridge, ; 4th one yet another girl - state church school, Cambridge (degree not law); next one yet another girl - school in Middle East then not Oxbridge but got a first in law;

At last a boy...doesn't give his school, Cambridge and LGBT societies; from the name probably from another European country; next one - back to girls again - girls only comp; Durham (1st class);
Next is yet another girl - state grammar, very high grades (as indeed do most of them), Cambridge
Then another girl - private day school in N England, first from Durham
Next one - one of the few boys - Cambridge, black not that it's relevant, boys' state school which used to be grammar.

So it looks like it helps if you are female; private school does no harm; almost all have very good exam results and most at Oxbridge or Durham in term of university but not always so and quite a lot of first class degrees and good extra curriculars.

@Xenia thank you for laying it out but I wasn’t very interested in law. Sorry if it sounds rude - it’s not meant to be. To me law is a separate thread. It’s very clear what the path is and who gets it. I am not saying it’s easy but it’s very clear. The process, approach, prep. Generally, it’s about smarts and being presentable. All the Magic Circle firms hold hundreds of events on campus and in their offices. As do smaller firms. In a sense, banking is similar.

I was more interested in “general” graduate schemes. The Centrica, Sky, Tesco and the rest of FTSE100 and the like. That to me is less clear. Who gets them if bright DCs who are personable with decent degrees from RG are struggling.

Or even graduate jobs (ie not schemes) - I did a quick google search for London and it’s either education, care, hospitality or “cold calling” sales roles paying peanuts. I didn’t find proper entry level positions that DO NOT require any prior experience in that particular field. So casting the net wider… sure.. but to what?

Gap year pre-uni perhaps, afterwards - not so sure. I am not sure it’s view favourably by employers as it’s not really considered a skilled job. Even if it is.

Too many people in this country? Huh,? And it really doesn't show redundancy if university. Without degrees these people would not even get near the door.

@Sunnnybunny72 - yep I would be too- i probably would have picked him as well. I like well rounded people to work in commercial business, bright and sharp but personable, good on the phone, confident but not cocky. Far too many businesses spend their recruiting time ticking boxes to fit specific quotas rather than actually recruiting people who are right for a job and really want that job and in my experience some graduates can be a bit lacking on the personal skills side and some are very lacking in having much work experience at all - even when at uni-

I think one problem is a lot are all after the same grad schemes in the same industry's because they pay well even on the grad scheme. And others of a different type are after a whole bunch of jobs that don't pay well -- but have the cool factor.

Social research is an area where a masters might make a difference.

Is she a member of the SRA? May be worth it for the networking and access to job ads, LinkedIn group etc.

Good quanties are hard to find so developing top notch SPSS skills would be advised if she hasn’t already.

The way recruiters seek candidates for jobs these days sounds so brutal. The aptitude tests, the several rounds of interviews, the presentations etc.

I am very grateful that DD is working in an area where there is a shortage of suitable employees (pharmacy).

She is going back to university to study for a masters in an area where there is even more of a shortage of suitable employess. At the subject talk the course director said that it was one of the few degree courses that guarantees a job at the end of it (healthcare related masters).

Oh dear, threads like these are so worrying. I'm a few years behind - DD1 is studying for GCSEs but it sounds so tough for young people. She is academically capable but would never manage to get a job through the processes you all describe. She has selective mutism and while I hope she'll progress enough to get through basic interviews she would never cope with several rounds and presentations etc.

It's helpful, if depressing, to hear what young people are experiencing and makes me seriously start to think about making plans for the future. Wishing all the young job-seekers well.

@meringue33 thanks for the pointer to the SRA. I'll let my DD know.

She's on LinkedIn. Plans to target smaller companies in January once her Christmas market job and exams are done.

Has thought about methods masters but cost putting her off although I've just looked up and local uni is £7k less than current uni for substantially same course so that might be an option.

Does have SPSS (and Stata and a little R) experience but I guess not enough for the current job market. Although friend on placement who is a really competent R programmer (I helped her out with something) also failed to get a job.

Just wanted to pop on and say that there are loads of graduate jobs in ireland if people are interested.
Housing is hard to find in Dublin but ok outside of that.
Most of the big financial and It companies have bases here so there might be an option to transfer back over after a year or two. .

DS(20) is currently doing his industrial placement year. His experience of applying for a placement job is in my view, not dissimilar to applying for a graduate job. Out of his year, approx 10% managed to secure a 12 mth placement for their sandwich year which is shocking. The only “edge” that DS had was relevant work experience in that he had a 3 mth summer paid internship between YR1 & YR2. he still had numerous rejections and we had to persuade him that it was a numbers game and that he needed to continue applying. He had

This sounds like a good idea as my graduate child has Irish citizenship. What are the best places/ sites to look for these graduate jobs in Ireland you mentioned?

When I was last recruiting, the number of applications we received that clearly had not been tailored to the job advertised was astonishing. 3/4 of the applications were clearly fired off with no thought at all, and were instantly rejected. The people who sent them could quite legitimately say they have applied for 30 jobs, but they hadn’t bothered to spend even an extra 15 minutes looking into the demands of the role or the culture of the company. It is definitely better to apply for fewer jobs and show you have researched into the company/sector.

It is incredibly tough out there. There are always other options and routes though.

Any work experience at all gives you something to draw on down the line, and talk about at interview, and shows you are prepared to get your hands dirty and be part of a team. Anything working with people develops client facing skills.

There are lots of free courses available online.
If interested in working internationally, free language courses. EDI and Sustainability, If they could be of interest at all, do a course. Read what is going on in the sector you are interested in, and if they are talking about something a lot, make sure you know about it. Smaller companies may want people who can take a lead on these things.
Almost every job needs IT skills. Rather than just saying ‘proficient in MS Office’, go deeper. Touch typing, free courses in Excel, website management, etc. no time learning any skills is wasted.

My law examples were as much for my own curiosity as anyone else. So ignoring law you can probably do a similar google search to find out the backgrounds on linked in of those who get the jobs that the future graduate might want in various sectors. One of my children looked at advertising graduate schemes at one point..Let me try with a bit advertising agency and word account executive

First one - a girl (or I should say woman), went to a state school - academy, A levels are a star and A and A. Exeter 2/1. Graduated 2024 so looks like she would have applied whilst at university. Next one is a boy - boarding school, same A levels as other one, high 2.1 from Durham, did internship after graduating for a month or so at the firm and then taken on right away.

Perhaps I should be looking at different graduate jobs but interesting though it is I had better get some work done now....

You're asking for tips on emotional support and other than giving them a safe and loving home, I don't have any, sorry!

However -- the way you really help them is utilising your own professional networks, networking events, LinkedIn. I never managed to get a job by applying directly; it was always through networking and word-of-mouth recommendations.

@Solasum thank you for sharing that. I relate to this - I don’t do mass recruitment now and not for entry roles. But when I did (9 years ago, no assessment centres, no tests, just good old CV and multiple interviews) I had the same situation - thousands of applications, lots very badly written, and at interviews - I could count thoughtful, well-prepared candidates on one hand. But the market was generally better and there was more of a human touch. Now it seems at least from parents on this threads that even well-prepared DC are getting rejected by a robot. I don’t think my DC can do any more prep so maybe I’ll recommend doing some skills courses instead/on top.

@Xenia thanks for that and sorry if I appeared rude. I think all DC we are talking about come from similar backgrounds- solid uni, decent degree, solid A levels, some work experience (be it pub work, retail or internships) but they seem to be unable to convert applications to offers in spite of clearly investing in prep. That’s what I find confusing. What does it take to convert? Or are half of these schemes are simply fakes or have just a couple of token positions and are really not hiring. Which would make it even more depressing.