Adult son (25) - don't know how to proceed

[DeSelby70]

Hi all. I have a 25 year old son who has displayed ASD type behaviours such as:

No friends – he had a small group but they dissipated after A level
Doesn’t take care of his appearance
Mumbles everything
Has obsessive random interests
Announces strongly held opinions at inappropriate times
No interest in dating, etc.

Diagnosis is not available where we live (unless private and unaffordable) and he wouldn’t engage with it anyway.

I admit I have propped him up through his degree (which was in my area of expertise). He then worked 6 months in a warehouse night shift. Then came a year and a half of no job, while he explained that he was going to make his fortune in business. This became increasingly unfounded in reality.

He then completed a Masters in an area in which there are many well paying jobs. My anticipation was that if he could secure one of these jobs then I could try to work with him regarding social interactions – the importance of small talk, smiling, being a good colleague, etc.

This was the plan up until a few weeks ago.

He’s now announced that he’s not getting a job because he’s starting his business and he’ll ‘be away soon enough’ (he won’t). I’m livid. Neither me or his other parent (separated since age 7) are allowed to know what this business is as it’s ‘none of our business’ – while he empties both fridges and pushes up the heating bills.

He’s not the type of son I read about on this forum who is violent/drugs/abusive. He has a good sense of humour and is interested in the world. I love my son but my heart is broke that there still is a possible future which could be the making of him but he’s choosing to delude himself in the most immature way – which after a period, I imagine would make him unemployable.

I feel that he’s brought me to a place where I’m just enabling him and I just want him to live independently now. He would be welcome back if his attitude changes, but otherwise he’ll be here when he’s forty (If I am).

His other parent wants to leave any discussion for a number of weeks because of a stressful work period in which they can’t get themselves upset. I’ve told him if he comes here, there will be a discussion or don’t come. So for now he’s staying there.

Anyone dealt with anything similar?

Let him stay at his other parents, and don’t you pay for anything anymore. Once stressful work period is over, other parent can decide whether son can stay & pay his way (own food shop, help with bills) or tell son he can leave.

Time for tough love OP. Many people work factories or retail or otherwise while building up their own businesses. He can’t just live with mummy & daddy in hopes that the business will flourish, ESPECIALLY if you are not allowed to know what the business is - what’s his business plan, where’s the funding, what are his projections for year 1, 2 and 5? Does he have a mentor? Where will he get stock, how will he manage financials, taxes, invoicing? Is he registered?

I would start by giving deadlines. He wants to start his own business - great! When will he anticipate it up and running? You need to know as you presume he'll want to move out? Suggest he starts looking at houseshares/flats? What is his business plan? When does he anticipate making money? Does he need to create a website? Does he need help from an accountant? Take his promise of starting his own business at face value, get behind it and don't allow him to stall. He's 25 now, he should be supporting himself, don't poo poo his idea. But he needs to work at it doesn't he?

The best way to get a young adult to find a job is to stop paying for them! How does he pay for his clothes, phone etc? Stop buying him nice food - just the basics, no treats. He needs an incentive to earn money.

I actually have a different perspective to tough love. My DB likely has ASD. Not diagnosed but diagnoses in the younger generation make it pretty blindingly obvious. He’s highly intelligent but struggled at school and we learned the hard way that he’s not actually able to work or live independently. He doesn’t have anything like a “normal” life (no friends, no partner, no job etc) but is happy living with my parents, doing his special interests. If your DS does have ASD, bear in mind that I think only a quarter to a third of autistic adults are in work so he might need more/different support and expectations than someone neurotypical.

He's shown he is employable because he's done 6 months in a warehouse.

I have a son with ASD of a similar age. I started by finding him a volunteer job, and then after 6 months of that I found him an actual job. Its very difficult as he has absolutely no interest or will to do anything, so I am always pushing from behind

Tell me you don't understand ASD without telling me you don't understand ASD.

Perhaps that 6 months burnt him out so much he now can't work.

Perhaps it did burn him out or perhaps it didn't. Without a formal diagnosis no one can say.

You have supported him through a degree and a masters, that's a lot so he clearly has some capability. He also has the capability to work a full time job. I don't think at this stage its unreasonable of you to expect him to start to stand on his own feet, he needs to work and support himself even if you allow him to live at home, which is really generous. From now on in he needs to get used to supporting himself by making a financial contribution to bills and buy his own food and making an effort with the cleaning etc.

Could you sit down and have that conversation with him?

Sorry what does a formal diagnosis have to do with his ability to work?

He's still the same person whether he's got the diagnosis or not.

Exactly. He may have just decided he didn't want to go to work anymore and wanted to stay at home. Nothing to do with showing ASD type behaviour.

What?

Yes, he might have done. Or he might be burnt out. He can be in autistic burnout even though he doesn't have a bit of paper that says a doctor's certified he's autistic.

Agree. It may be down to ASD, it may be down to being lazy. The OP has only given facts. He worked night shifts in a warehouse for 6 months. She hasn't mentioned why he left.

Oh for goodness sake. No two autistic people are the same, what a sweeping generalisation. He has shown he can work, if it has burnt him out that doesn't mean he can never work again, there are schemes to support people with disabilities and there are always part time and volunteering roles which could be less pressurised. He may not be able to cope with the career that Masters was aimed at though.

Has he shared anything about his business plans? Could he get support from the job centre? My friend who is in receipt of UC (and is autistic) has just become self employed and they have been helpful to him. It is worth exploring these avenues. If he genuinely can't work he will need to start claiming benefits at some point.

I think (one) problem is that if he is capable of setting up and running a business then he us capable to work in his field for other people successfully—where success means earning his living and independently functioning. He thinks he can do either but chooses to focus on being self employed. He is almost certainly wrong about his capacity for independent work. So pretending that he is, not challenging him, feels like a form of collusion (term of art in psychology).

Along with scaffolding and support goes the necessity of raising your child to respect and work around his limitations. A person an do anything, pretty y, with the right kind of support. But part of independence is learning how to get and manage support: don’t know how to run a business? Take a course? Need to drive but can’t? Hire a driver. Need to take a course snd hire a driver? Earn the money in a warehouse. The one thing OP needs to see is that he can do it himself.

I have an autistic daughter, and I have to say I agree. I have been through the wringer worrying about her, and trying to get support for her. I worried that I was enabling her but since her diagnoses (adhd as well) I have let go of that and accepted she needs more support than most other young adults.

@pikkumyy77 thank you. What you say about building a scaffolding is absolutely true. Thank you for articulating your thoughts so well.

Great, he is starting his own business but he still needs to earn money until it turns a profit. The gravy train needs to stop and he needs to stand on his own 2 feet, he needs to stop stalling with masters, own business etc. I say that as someone neurodiverse who has to work

Excuse me? I didn't say anything of the sort.

What you and the PP I quoted totally fail to understand is that just because someone has managed to just about function in a job for 6 months at some point in their past, does not mean they're capable of doing that right now or on a longer term basis.

Neurodivergent people can have wildly fluctuating capacity. I have days where I can do things that I can't even think about doing some other days. It's not a black and white "well he had a job so he must just be being lazy if he doesn't have one now".

I don't know if this man is capable of holding down a job any more than you do, but the numbers of autistic adults who are capable of working full time are very small. He may well be in the group that can't cope with working.

I’d insist on him doing voluntary work relevant to his role. A couple of days each week. This with help with social skills, confidence, building links, getting a referee.

alternatively an apprenticeship on which he can learn practicalities of a role

You’ve been supporting him all this time. Maybe time to start charging rent, even a nominal amount and letting him stand on his own two feet.

Where is he getting money to fund this business? Is he expecting you to pay? If so, only agree once he fas a business plan, deadlines etc, and only commit to a set amount (or none at all).

OP are you in England?

If so, he can apply for universal credit, which will also do a low work capability assessment, and he can also apply for PIP.

One is means tested and the other isn't.

You don't need a diagnosis for either, however you do need to be able to answer the questions provided and evidence that most days he is detrimentally impacted by his abilities so that he cannot do key daily living activities including work.

You can get advice from the CAB regarding this, and they can assist in filling in the forms.

With UC, LWCRA and PIP he will be able to pay his way in your household. Obviously he needs to qualify for this, and again he does not need diagnoses but you do have to have evidence to back up what you're saying.

He can also speak to UC about starting his own business however he cannot do this is he is being assessed for low work capability. UC will/should ask how many hours a week he thinks he could manage working for himself, and ask him how long he thinks he will need to set up and establish his business and will reasonably taper their work search threshold for him but only for so long.

IF he is on the spectrum, he probably needs you to prop him up finding a job and moving out.

If your DS does have ASD, bear in mind that I think only a quarter to a third of autistic adults are in work so he might need more/different support and expectations than someone neurotypical.

Ive always wondered about those figures. I suspect there are many people on the spectrum who aren’t diagnosed BECAUSE they manage to work, live on their own etc… esp the current generation of adults who weren’t diagnosed as ‘easily’ if they didn’t have issues at school.
But yes, moving out won’t be as straight forward (SIL is going through something similar atm. Except her dc didn’t make it to the end if the 1st year st Uni)

To add, you can work and be in receipt of PIP because PIP isn't means tested, and so they might ask about ability to work but he can still work and receive PIP, just not LWCRA.

Both are slow processes. He should look for work in the interim, and be honest about his disabilities even without a diagnosis they have to consider what is said on intake, and he should also tell all prospective employers about reasonable adjustments he may require. If this is not done on intake it may take months before it gets to the point within his employment where they consider occupational health and reasonable adjustments as part of capability processes.

Ive always wondered about those figures. I suspect there are many people on the spectrum who aren’t diagnosed BECAUSE they manage to work, live on their own etc…

My thinking on this is that they are only taking into consideration those with diagnoses because a. It's hard to quantify something you don't have statistics for and b. To reach the stage where you get a diagnosis your life has to be significantly impacted socially, emotionally and developmentally. For example, my son is autistic, I am autistic. He was diagnosed aged 3 and I aged 28. Obviously that means that for a lot of my life I was high masking and functioning, quite different to my child. It got to the point where I was in burnout and crisis mode and my care needs have significantly increased. Even though my traits had been present since childhood I don't think I would have considered it a disability until the point where I had to seek a diagnosis and so therefore I think the statistic is saying that 15% of those disabled by their autistic traits enough to qualify for a diagnosis are in full time work.
It's obviously a flawed and imperfect way to measure the capability of people with autism and it only takes into account full time work because many of us work part time, and for some the rigidity and routine of work makes being at work less disabling than the chaos of home life. This is not me though. I am increasingly struggling.

My mum, and nan, both have very similar behaviours to me, but they're both in full time work and have never considered themselves disabled and so have never sought a diagnosis, but they do both consider themselves autistic and I'm on the fence whether I agree with that sentiment because it is a lifelong developmental disability, whether you feel inherently disabled like I do or whether you're situationally disabled by barriers put in place that prevent you from doing things someone without autism can do as there are no barriers for them.